Advent calendar punishment

[LittleMissRayofHope]

Dd is 2.5 and going through a tough stage with defiance and tantrums etc. She's quite advanced (confirmed by nursery and development specialist not just me being pushy partner!) anyway, I have a great big santa decoration with numbered pockets as an advent calendar. Each night I fill tomorrow's pocket with a treat and something small.
This evening she was being quite naughty and I asked her twice to stop what she was doing. I told her I would tell santa and he wouldn't have a present for her tomorrow. She looked at me and purposefully did it again. This happened 3 times and then I walked to santa and told him what she had done. At first she laughed but by bedtime she was genuinely worried she won't get a present and she apologised to me and to santa.

DH thinks I should relent and fill the pocket. I'm not sure.
Is she too young? She will be heart broken tomorrow if there's nothing there.
Stick to my guns or accept the apology and hope she has learnt?

ava- this sounds exactly like my parenting technique too. Based on attachment and mutual trust and respect.
It seemed a long hard road to start with, but I had lots of friends using this approach too. As the years passed it became second nature and the benefits were amazing. Now especially as my kids are on the brink of adulthood I see the results.

I have never made my kids say please and thankyou either, but modelled that behaviour, now my teenagers thank me for lots of things. THey are courteous and kins, respectful and caring twoards others.

Oh good grief. Do you people think you invented this parenting lark? Call it what you like, is it really any different? You lot who are 'seeking natural consequences' are the ones who keep talking about "punishment".

Why are people mentioning hitting kids as a punishment?
Most people dont hit their kids, even those that are find of punishment and reward systems.
My style of punishment (and many others judging by posts on here) are similar to the 'natural consequence' parenting consequences, we just call it something different.
For example: if you don't brush your teeth in the next 5 mins you leave me no choice but to brush them for you even though it makes you feel like a baby.
If you use the iPad for more than your allowed time you will lose iPad time from tomorrow.
If you don't stop snatching toys from johnny in such an aggressive manner I will move you to an area where you will be by yourself and unable to keep snatching.

There is no hitting. Just punishments directly related to actions and given a different name to other parents.

I see most of these examples as punishments.

Is it any different to your holier than thoustyle of parenting though? You are the one who can't use the word 'punishment'. Is it because you secretly beat the shit out of your kids?

What happened to the strikethrough?

Yes it is different-

Withholding ipad time- a withdrawal of privilidge- a punishment

"you leave me no choice but to brush them for you even though it makes you feel like a baby." - very passive aggressive- nasty.

" I will move you to an area where you will be by yourself" using isolation as a punishment.

You don't really get it do you.

hahaha ha the world is indeed mad.

i would say that my kids know they have crossed the line when mummy uses her sickly sweet soft voice OF RAGE....

I don't really want to get your shite. I don't humiliate my kids, I don't bully my kids, we get on just fine. You seem to be the one with the chip on your shoulder.

bigblue you are saying those things are punishments but some others using natural consequences are saying those things are natural consequences. Doesn't that just add weight to the argument that we all describe and interpret things differently?
I'm very happy with my style of parenting BTW. Leaving things to moral compass wouldn't work with my eldest who has a learning disability as he wouldn't be able to self regulate. He does understand specific related consequences though, ie. if you don't put the books on the shelf (because nobody can move if there are 100 books scattered on the floor) then I will remove all of the books.

How is it cruel not to give a present? It's not like you need a present every day in the run up to Christmas. Maybe it isn't suitable as a punishment but there will be presents on Christmas Day. Is it necessary to have them all through Advent too? Is it a cultural thing?

Bigblue the differences that you're describing are merely semantics and not the massive philosophical chasm you appear to think they are

Bigblue.

'I have never made my kids say please and thankyou either, but modelled that behaviour, now my teenagers thank me for lots of things.'

Now, this might seem great to you but, in reality, what has happened is that your children have been allowed to grow up being disrespectful of other people. They may (kind of) get it now but that does not mean a lot of people have not been hurt and offended by their lack of manners while still children. My 4 and 5.5 year old know it is UNACCEPTABLE to not say please or thank you. They know that there will be a consequence if they are ill mannered to other people. Consequently, they are frequently complimented on their good manners and this (obviously) makes them happy. High expectations are meaningless unless they are somehow enforced.

Bringing up children is about helping them fit into society, not making this an optional thing and hoping that they will eventually copy you.

This is a bit like a sketch or a parody now

Respect has been at the core of the way I parent. From the very first day my kids were born.

Respect can be taken too far

Actually this: I have never made my kids say please and thankyou either, but modelled that behaviour, now my teenagers thank me for lots of things worked well when my two were younger (toddlers) and they had lovely manners. They still do but we now remind them as well.

Some kids ARE just good though.. luckily enough mine were - they never needed to be told to say please and thank you - we said it often (very often) so they copied.

Mine don't need punishing because they don't misbehave (yet - now 12 and 14) - and have never done the stuff like hit or snatch. Nor were they whingers or whiners

The people with more spirited kids don't seem to understand that some kids aren't built that way, some are just, ermmm - compliant - not right, not wrong, just different.

I just remembered an incident a few years back as a result if this thread.

We were sitting in a hospital waiting room with our children (one just a baby) and there was a kid throwing duplo bricks and other toys indiscriminately around the room. There was lots of poorly children being narrowly missed by these flying toys. The parents didn't try to stop the child and it went on for more than 10 mins when a man suddenly stated "stop your child from throwing Those bricks and other stuff or there will be trouble in here if my children are injured'. The paren quickly scooped up the child and said something bout the man being nasty. All of the other parents looked at the man with complete approval.
The parents of the throwing toys kid must have Been doing some kind of not modifying the child's behaviour and letting him develop his own moral compass. Fortunately nobody got hurt in the process because somebody was prepared to step in. All this letting he child learn for themselves is fine in your own home but not in the vicinity where other children can be harmed because you are not prepared to stop your child when he is putting others at risk.

"must have Been doing some kind of not modifying the child's behaviour and letting him develop his own moral compass. "

No he was simply being a bad parent.

I have very high standards for my children's behaviour.

What would not have done in that situation blue?

*you

my girls would not have done that - not ever - they would have sat beside me reading/looking at a book whilst waiting to see the doc. I would not have had to tell them to do so, they just would have.

Some kids just would not have got into that situation to have to be told to stop. I expect the best of them, and luckily they are amenable to that.

I found it very hard to deal with a friend's kids when they were definitely not what I was used to. They drew on the walls! hit each other! took chocolate from the kitchen cupboard etc... kids are all different so can people stop with the passive aggressive "well, what would you do?" crap.... since the answer is "It would not have happened" or "Why the fuck would my child be throwing bricks in the first place?"

Ah that old chestnut again. There's nothing passive aggressive about asking what someone who is so outspoken in their practices would do in a certain situation.

Just fruitless as the only answers I'm getting are "my child would never do that"