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Original poster

Advent calendar punishment

232 replies

LittleMissRayofHope · 21/12/2014 22:23

Dd is 2.5 and going through a tough stage with defiance and tantrums etc. She's quite advanced (confirmed by nursery and development specialist not just me being pushy partner!) anyway, I have a great big santa decoration with numbered pockets as an advent calendar. Each night I fill tomorrow's pocket with a treat and something small.
This evening she was being quite naughty and I asked her twice to stop what she was doing. I told her I would tell santa and he wouldn't have a present for her tomorrow. She looked at me and purposefully did it again. This happened 3 times and then I walked to santa and told him what she had done. At first she laughed but by bedtime she was genuinely worried she won't get a present and she apologised to me and to santa.

DH thinks I should relent and fill the pocket. I'm not sure.
Is she too young? She will be heart broken tomorrow if there's nothing there.
Stick to my guns or accept the apology and hope she has learnt?

OP posts:
GarlicDrankTheChristmasSpirit · 23/12/2014 04:08

Shock Shock TooHasty!

Seems OP has indeed been had.

Italiangreyhound · 23/12/2014 04:24

Littlemissrayofhope glad you worked out what to do and say you are learning. I have done so many parenting courses and am still learning all the times. My eldest is 10 now and I often make mistakes! I think it is always best to back down when you have been unreasonable. Because it shows that there is a way back from silly or wrong decisions. It models that, IMHO.

MultipleMama you said 1, 2, 3, I used to do that but now I use 3, 2, 1. It works better. With my 10 year old even but especially with my 4 year old. I'd also recommend The Parenting Puzzle

sykadelic · 23/12/2014 04:31

I always love these assessments. Bell curve and all that fun stuff.

She's a kid. Punish her like you normally would.

I wouldn't include Santa/Christmas/Birthday etc in it because I would want them to still have positive memories of that event, not "last Christmas sucked". Plus you want it to carry further than that "you know what happens when you don't listen" rather than chopping and changing for the occasion. Consistency is key.

Romeorodriguez · 23/12/2014 05:37

I still want to know what a 'development specialist' actually is? Do you mean an ed psych? Because there would have to be a genuine reason for carrying out an assessment on a toddler, like autism etc. I think that as another poster has said, there is a lower staff ratio in the older group, so it makes sense for the nursery to bump older toddlers up so they can take on more. I know that even if a 'developmental specialist' had stated my child was 'advanced'. I wouldn't want them in the older group, what exactly are the benefits OP?

gretagrape · 23/12/2014 06:31

This is really interesting about the "natural consequences". I have to admit (blame exhaustion) I thought when people talked about it they literally meant no intervention so had visions of militant types letting their kids run into the road because it would teach them that the natural consequence is getting run over!! I don't want to go down the threats/shouty road but haven't been able to work out what would be the middle ground but I guess in the scenario above the natural consequence if my toddler tries to run in the road is that I strap him in his buggy. God 21 months of tiredness has made me so dim!

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 06:36

greta- yes you are right.

Crossing a road with a toddler means either hold Mummy's hand or be carried/back in the buggy. That isn't a punishment though ( some kids may even prefer to be carried).

Parenting with no punishment does not mean libertarian parenting. I have very high expectations of behaviour- I just don't use punishments to achieve it.

bedhaven · 23/12/2014 07:00

You have to go through with your threat. The Santa note is a brilliant idea. I'm having a similarly challenging time with youngest DS. I think of it as both of us learning and setting boundaries, I don't always get it right, usually because I am very cross and reacting but I have to go through with it. I can see he knows when something is not good behaviour, I've warned him what the consequences are going to be and he still chooses to do it again. I don't think he really understands the whys and wherefores of each behaviour and expectation (neither do I!) this will take some time. However, the important message from me is that I am truthful, when I say something is going to happen, good or bad, it happens. When I've been tearing my hair out in frustration feeling like I don't do anything but say no, threaten and shout. I try and turn it round, emphasising praise and not reacting to the bad behaviours (unless it's dangerous or hitting or kicking) that seems to work just as well but I feel better for not feeling so negative.

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 07:06

bedhaven- I think a big key to whichever approach we take is staying calm, controlling our anger and no shouting.

Iggly · 23/12/2014 07:17

Pmsl at development specialist.

Seriously - she is still a toddler. Being able to read/write etc doesn't mean she behaves like an older child (for example my dd is just turned three and can write like her older brother but no way is she like her 5 year old brother behaviour wise)

larrygrylls · 23/12/2014 07:19

The most amusing things about these threads is the parents who don't punish but pursue 'natural consequences' such as confiscating an iPad (example used above). There is nothing natural about taking a toy away, it is a punishment, plain and simple, merely rebranded for our touchy feely times.

As for the poor 2.5 year old, OP, high expectations are great but treating a toddler as a schoolchild will merely cause stress. No amount of expensive experts paid to confirm your unrealistic view of your child, will change a 2.5 year old into a 5 year old. At that age, an immediate punishment is better. And, at bedtime, removing the temptation is even better.

Welshwabbit · 23/12/2014 07:34

Larrygrylls, I have been thinking the same throughout this thread. It is still a punishment, just a logical one linked to the specific behaviour. There is nothing "natural" about parental intervention to remove a toy. Similarly, there is nothing "natural" about grabbing a toddler who is running for the road and strapping them into the pushchair. The "natural consequence" would be that they got run over. Semantics maybe, but I feel as though the terminology is being used to suggest that those who "punish" are somehow damaging their toddlers, whereas in fact I think a lot of people are talking about the same thing but using different words.

MaryWestmacott · 23/12/2014 07:40

Agree with Larry - removing an i-pad, removing a child from the toys for a set period etc is punishing them - its just making sure your punishment relates to what they did wrong! Stop saying you don't punish your child for bad behaviour, you do, you just make sure it 'fits the crime'!!!

However, I have met a couple of sets of parents who don't punish at all. (both large families with the Dad working very long hours, so in effect, it's the mums taking the decision not to do any punishment). In both families, the DCs are absolute shits. And also in both, the children have really struggled to fit in when they started school because they were used to being able to be horrible if they wanted. It's actually very sad and is isolating them, no one wants to play with the horrible child.

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 07:43

But I don't "punish" my husband, or my mother. They too deal with the natural consequences of their actions.

Punishment_
"the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence"

I see punishment as the naughty step, withdrawal of privildeges, grounding, smacking etc.

Natural consequences are not about retribution , it is allowing children to become aware of the impact of their actions.

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 07:45

"being able to be horrible if they wanted." but that is the result of libertarian parents- not ones who don't use punishment.

paperlace · 23/12/2014 07:52

Also laughing about 'development specialist' Grin. Bet you are kicking yourself you through that fabricated detail into the mix, OP!

BUT I call bullshit on 90% of posters on the 'you have to follow through/I never threatened anything I didn't carry out'. Come on! We've all got the rage and threatened a silly punishment and had to back track. As long as it's a rarity and you are usually consistent it's not the end of the world.

paperlace · 23/12/2014 07:52

Threw not through

larrygrylls · 23/12/2014 07:55

Big blue,

Your husband must get a shock when you take away his iPad and explain it as a 'natural consequence'.

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 07:59

Who mentioned an ipad? Not me.

paperlace · 23/12/2014 08:00

There is a very thin line between punishment and consquences. Some might even say they are the same thing

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 08:01

paperlace- so you punish your OH?

paperlace · 23/12/2014 08:08

I most certainly do - I have a built-in dungeon in my basement

larrygrylls · 23/12/2014 08:09

Big blue,

Do you enforce 'natural' consequences in your husband in the same way as you do in your child/ children?

bigbluestars · 23/12/2014 08:16

lry- I don't "enforce" anything - that's the whole point about natural consequences.

larrygrylls · 23/12/2014 08:18

Really? So, if to your child snatches a toy from a sibling or friend, he just gets the toy? After all, that is the natural consequence.

Fanfeckintastic · 23/12/2014 08:20

You don't enforce everything? I find that extremely hard to believe.