To be annoyed paying childminder over Christmas?

[oinkyoink]

We have had a childminder (it's a mum in her 60s and 30ish year old daughter who work together) for the two kids since September. She collects my son at 11.30 from nursery and my daughter at 3 from school. She doesn't provide any food which is fine... She's not exactly a quality childminder or one that you rave about and say things like she's worth her weight in gold etc. I don't mean it in a nasty way, I am just aware that she never takes my son out and puts the TV a lot! When I first met the two of them I said I was interested in term time only. The mum had popped out for a second and the daughter said yes that is absolutely fine. When the mum came back I mentioned it again and she said oh no that's not possible at all, we are a business and we want 100% pay all year round whatever the issue. She gets 4 weeks holiday included. I was taken aback as the daughter had just said term time only was fine... Anyway because we had no other minders who could do what we needed we went with them. Now it's come to Xmas and we are having two weeks off and they are having 1.5 weeks off. I have to pay them £240 per week for the two weeks we are away and it's really irritating me. A nanny would cost me a bit more but we would get such better value out of her (doing cooking kids laundry etc) so what do I do? Is it normal a minder charges so much?

There have been a couple of incidences too. My son told me they went to a cafe one day, he asked her for a drink and a muffin and she said no no yet she sat there and had a coffee. I brought this up with her and she was highly embarrassed and the next day she had him in a cafe sending me photos of him with a big muffin etc etc (too late- my son already got the idea what he means to her) he asks her to play with play doh or paint and she says no they can't as one of her nieces has taken the paint (white lies) or play doh. It's not acceptable. It's very clear they are in the business just for the money. I didn't sign the contract she have me at the start, it's still lying on the microwave... I think if I were really happy with them id pay however they really aren't amazing in any way and the little incidences have really bugged me. Thoughts appreciated...

insancerre The gym I go to isn't shut on bank holidays. If it was and my membership of the gym only allowed me to use it on Mondays and Tuesdays then yes I would expect to pay less than people with Wednesday and Thursday membership because obviously the Gym would be available to me for fewer days of the year due to the fact that most bank holidays are on Monday.

Boomtownsurprise Assuming that the nursery is only open five days a week every week, a parent would/should expect to pay approx £13,000 a year for a full time place if the quoted daily childcare cost is £50. It would be deceptive for a nursery to say that the cost for childcare is £50 a day if the annual cost is £18,250 for a full time place.

whatever let it go.

whatever let it go.

Yes, I will as it is clear that some people are never going understand that it is unreasonable to charge when you are not available for business. Fortunately most of the nurseries in the three areas I lived in did get that so it wasn't an issue for me.

As long as charges are clear, then the agreement is between a childcare provider and someone requiring childcare. Both are adults consenting to the agreement, so whatever is agreed should stand. Simple. It really doesn't matter if it is expressed in terms of hourly rates, yearly charge etc etc as long as everyone is clear. Parents are adults and can calculate the fees into different time periods if they wish,mor ask the childminder to do so if they want the information in a different format. It needs to be done before beginning.
Parents should certainly check they have read contracts and fully understand the charging implications, notice periods, sickness rules etc and query anything they are unsure or unhappy about before starting. It is not acceptable to suddenly object to these terms a few months in and expect them to be changed in your favour and against that of the childminder.

I think it's the norm to pay for some holiday if your child is below school age. Depends on the childminders contract though, some charge for holiday and some don't. Your childminder sounds crap though, there are lots of great ones, like mine!

I've been a Childminder for 15 years.I don't charge for Bank Hols or my own holidays.Parents are charged half fees if they go on hols whilst I am 'open' but this has never happened as they just take their holidays at the same time.And it has never occurred to me to charge a higher rate per hour to cover my holidays and bank holidays and I don't know any other minders who do this -If I'm not open,I don't charge. If you've read and signed the contract, there's nothing you can do.

In your OP, it appears you didn't sign the contract?

Then don't pay, don't take your children back and don't look back!

She isn't providing a good level of care. Even with a (signed) contract in situ, you would have grounds to terminate your agreement.

I am a childminder and don't charge holidays because parents have to find alternative childcare and pay for it - my business, my decision. I know many that do though and it is becoming the norm, so if I find I'm in the minority, I may change that.

Like others, I'm appalled at the service - she is providing care, but she doesn't care. Find somebody better.

ProcrastinaRemNunc, it doesn't matter whether the contract was signed or not: in law it is still binding. OP can't refuse to pay based on the two instances of poor service she has cited, because she effectively condoned them by continuing to send her child to the child minder. She can however give whatever notice is required under the contract and withdraw her child.

It does matter, in the sense that a verbal agreement must still be proven as likely to have taken place. Both verbal and written contracts are binding, only one can be evidenced. The OP was told two different things by the two childminders. I believe this (rightly or wrongly, morally) gives room to manoeuvre.

I, personally, abide by my agreements (written or otherwise) but equally, I would have whipped my children out of their care, the instant I became dissatisfied with it, regardless of any contract.

But clearly the verbal agreement is proven, because OP has sent her child to the childminder having been told that she would have to pay for holidays, and has paid her for work done to date. It doesn't matter that the mother and daughter gave different information, OP accepts that the mother told her she would have to pay and that those were the final terms that were put to her before she agreed to send her child there.

Thr act of paying the holiday pay would create evidence of such an agreement, where currently there is none.

I'm not sure the OP has said she is definitely going to remove the child to another childminder. Doing this can take some time, and the fact she hasn't looked earlier suggests her complaints have not been that serious in her own mind. I think the fact she is required to pay over the holiday has brought what might have been niggles to a head and made them into a bigger thing in her mind. (On here, we simply don't know if the childminder has provided a decent service or not.....,the OP may find it hard to be objective about this, especially as she is trying to jusify not paying for the holiday)

Dealing with childminders is very much about relationships. People choose a CM over a nursery because there is a more personal relationship between the child and CM than with several nursery workers, and parents often build up a relationship with the CM too. So regardless of the law, the CM relationship involves goodwill. It seems that here, there isn't a strong relationship or it is breaking down. On this basis, it may be time to move on and give notice. However full fees (including the Christmas period) will be due until the end of the contract which will have some kind of notice period no doubt. As there has not been a formal complaint bout the childminders services at the points the OP has felt disgruntled, the agreement still stands in full until it is ended.

I think the OP is morally bound to pay. I'm sure a legal loophole could be found if she tries hard enough, esp as a contract was not signed. It seems to me that she is looking to wriggle out of paying.....citing disatisfaction as a way to try and take the moral high-ground, whilst doing something which is immoral. The CM is expecting to be paid over Christmas. She has probably budgeted based on this money. To refuse to pay and to try to justify it at this point as being due to poor care, when no formal complaint has been made previously, would be immoral. Regardless of whether the OP intends to continue to use the CM, she needs to behave CORRECTLY now, not selfishly. If she walks away without paying for Christmas, she needs to know that what she has done is wrong, whether illegal or not. Treating people right is so important.

And to all CM out there, ensure the contracts are fully signed and very clear, before starting work with a child. And to all parents, ensure you fully understand the terms before signing.