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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be annoyed paying childminder over Christmas?

164 replies

oinkyoink · 19/12/2014 20:43

We have had a childminder (it's a mum in her 60s and 30ish year old daughter who work together) for the two kids since September. She collects my son at 11.30 from nursery and my daughter at 3 from school. She doesn't provide any food which is fine... She's not exactly a quality childminder or one that you rave about and say things like she's worth her weight in gold etc. I don't mean it in a nasty way, I am just aware that she never takes my son out and puts the TV a lot! When I first met the two of them I said I was interested in term time only. The mum had popped out for a second and the daughter said yes that is absolutely fine. When the mum came back I mentioned it again and she said oh no that's not possible at all, we are a business and we want 100% pay all year round whatever the issue. She gets 4 weeks holiday included. I was taken aback as the daughter had just said term time only was fine... Anyway because we had no other minders who could do what we needed we went with them. Now it's come to Xmas and we are having two weeks off and they are having 1.5 weeks off. I have to pay them £240 per week for the two weeks we are away and it's really irritating me. A nanny would cost me a bit more but we would get such better value out of her (doing cooking kids laundry etc) so what do I do? Is it normal a minder charges so much?

There have been a couple of incidences too. My son told me they went to a cafe one day, he asked her for a drink and a muffin and she said no no yet she sat there and had a coffee. I brought this up with her and she was highly embarrassed and the next day she had him in a cafe sending me photos of him with a big muffin etc etc (too late- my son already got the idea what he means to her) he asks her to play with play doh or paint and she says no they can't as one of her nieces has taken the paint (white lies) or play doh. It's not acceptable. It's very clear they are in the business just for the money. I didn't sign the contract she have me at the start, it's still lying on the microwave... I think if I were really happy with them id pay however they really aren't amazing in any way and the little incidences have really bugged me. Thoughts appreciated...

OP posts:

NeedsAsockamnesty · 20/12/2014 10:04

There is no way that this contract would be found to be unfair. The sort of factors that make a contract unfair are where there is unequal bargaining power or that one of the parties had little or no choice but to accept the terms. In this case, there are plenty of childminders around, there was no compulsion on OP to agree to these terms, nor has there been any compulsion on her to carry on with the arrangement

You haven't seen it neither have I.

Either way it would still be down to the CM to attempt to enforce someone who is unfamiliar with certain processes and provides substandard care is unlikely to do so.

MissDuke · 20/12/2014 10:20

Totally agree with the majority - the issue is the lack of care, not the money. You need to find a new cm or after school club etc.

Our cm is lovely, very caring. She has been a cm for 30 odd years.

I don't pay when she is off. I have used her her now for 1.5 yrs and she hasn't been off sick in that time. When my kids are off unexpectedly - I pay without question. Mine are also term time only, and I pay a small retainer in the holidays. I work out all the dates I need at the start of the year, and pay half price for the days during term time that I don't need. We add it all up and divide into 12 equal amounts so she gets the same each month. Quite complicated to sit and organise, but when its done it works out great.

You need to negotiate all this before signing a contract.

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 11:45

I would find alternative childcare as I wouldn't be at all happy about the fact that she rarely takes your son out and sticks him in front of the TV a lot. I also don't think it was at all nice to take him to a cafe and not give him anything to drink/eat.

I can see why you're annoyed about paying for the holidays too. A lot of people seem to think it is okay because so many childminders do it but I think it is very unprofessional. They are self employed not employees and should only charge when they are actually available to work i.e. not when they are on holiday or off sick.

TooHasty · 20/12/2014 11:58

It's all down to pricing structure really.Some CMs will charge for xmas, others will wrap it up into their hourly/daily rate.

Dipankrispaneven · 20/12/2014 12:10

OK, Needsasockamnesty, what makes you think this contract would be found to be unfair?

MamaMary · 20/12/2014 12:17

OP, you are unreasonable not to expect to pay in the holidays - as that's what you agreed.

You're using the poor care as an excuse not to pay (or to moan about it) - that's also totally unreasonable. The two issues are separate.

If you really thought the care was not good enough for your son (and it doesn't sound like it is), you'd have withdrawn him before now. It seems you're more upset about the cost than about the poor care.

FWIW, my childminder is very caring and generally great, and I'm happy to pay her half-rate for holidays.

listsandbudgets · 20/12/2014 12:19

Have I read it right.

She picks your son up at 11.30 from nursery and your dd up at 3.30 from school. Presumably you pick them up from them after work.

In that time she provides no food? Do you send them with packed meals then? Surely she does not leave your ds without food for hours and hours and surely your dd at least wants a snack after school?

I think I'd be looking for someone else to do the job. Talk to the school and / or nursery and see if they can suggest anyone. Most of the costs relate to your DS I imagine. It may be cheaper to extend him to full time at nursery - at least you'd know he was being fed and looked after.

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 12:25

I'm not sure that the childminder can necessarily charge for the Christmas holidays if she doesn't haven't a signed contract from OP agreeing to this. I refused to pay the childminder dd went to for a few weeks for a bank holiday as she had never mentioned that she charged for this in advanced and I had not signed anything (or even seen anything) stating that I would be charged. I probably would have paid if dd was going to continue being looked after by the childminder but we found alternative childcare so that wasn't an issue.

Pastperfect · 20/12/2014 12:33

needasockamnesty you don't need to see the contract to know that it would not be deemed unfair.

FreudiansSlipper · 20/12/2014 12:34

i thought paying holiday pay was standard

but i do not understand why you would leave your children with someone you seem to dislike

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 12:39

It is standard to pay childminders some holiday pay, yes. Very few do term time only.

However, surely this is all peripheral to the fact that you send your children to a childminder who you know is dreadful every day! And seem quite blase about that!?

Stop fretting about the money and put all your energy into finding care that will be more loving and suitable for your kids.

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 12:45

It shouldn't be standard though. Childminders should only charge for days that they are available to work like other self employed people. They only do it to make their hourly rate look lower than it is (in effect). The fact that so many charge when they are on holiday does not make it okay.

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 12:49

They can charge whatever they like, whatever5, because as you correctly point out they are self employed.

FreudiansSlipper · 20/12/2014 12:49

why should they not be paid a yearly salary

being self employed is different you can (not always) choose what hours you do when to take your holidays cm have to work in term time otherwise they would not get any work

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 12:59

They can charge whatever they like, whatever5, because as you correctly point out they are self employed.

Other self employed people don't charge when they are not available for work though because people would immediately stop using their services if they did. People don't expect to be charged for a service they aren't getting and the fact that it has been sneaked into a contract does not make it fair. Childminders get away with it because people can't easily just stop using their service.

fatterface · 20/12/2014 13:03

It doesn't really matter whether they charge for their holidays or not. A CM could charge for 48 weeks a year and take 4 weeks unpaid holiday and charge £5 an hour. Or they could charge 52 weeks a year, take 4 weeks paid holiday and charge £4.50 an hour. Either way you pay for their holiday.

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 13:07

whatever5 I am a self employed person. My dh is a self employed person. We don't charge for holidays and I know how it works.

What usually happens is that all the childminders in any particular area do the same thing, as they are in competition with each other.

If you are a parent who is unaware of their childminders T&Cs then more fool you.

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 13:07

Exactly fatterface.

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 13:15

With the first option the fees are transparent though and this is fair. The only reason to go for the second option would be to make the hourly rate seem lower than it really is (in effect), especially as many childminders don't seem to really discuss in advance that they intend to charge when they are not available to work. It is just written into the contract and then people are told that it is standard and they have to pay because they have signed the contract.

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 13:19

Whatever, whatever, op knew that the childminders would be charging for holidays.

fatterface · 20/12/2014 13:20

I've used 3 childminders now and never not discussed fees and read the contract before using their services whatever.

WilburIsSomePig · 20/12/2014 13:21

Do you not have a contract? Our CM had a proper contract that we both agreed and signed. (Sorry if been mentioned, havent time to read whole thread).

Either way, I would not be leaving my kids with anyone who provided such poor childcare anyway.

whatever5 · 20/12/2014 13:44

Mintyy The OP did know but many people don't according to threads on here and discussions I have had in RL. The childminder I used (for about five weeks) certainly didn't mention in advance that she intended to charge when she wasn't available for work. I didn't ask if they intended to charge me when they weren't available to work as I wouldn't cross my mind that they were try to do that. Why would it?

WhyYouGottaBeSoRude · 20/12/2014 13:44

Other self employed people don't charge when they are not available for work though because people would immediately stop using their services if they did.

Well firstly other self employed people who dont arrange their fees to allow them a few weeks holiday a year arent great business people and have only themselves to blame i they cant afford to take a break.

And secondly, most other self employed people arent providing work on an ongoing long term basis that require them to schedule holiday time with their customer. If for example a building contractor took on a job they expected to last 18 months they would indeed have holidays during that time and the fee they charge would include their holiday pay.

Mintyy · 20/12/2014 13:47

Oh I don't know whatever. I think I would do some research about childminding as a profession if I was going to engage a childminder, that's all.

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