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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

When strangers touch your children?

142 replies

FluffyPingPong · 10/12/2014 10:00

I was on a bus into town yesterday, which goes around the houses and through a not-so-nice estate. It was 11am and a male and female were on the bus in their dressing gowns, being very loud and presumably drunk. As the bus pulled through to the estate, the couple stood up to get off. The male stopped next to my 1 year old son in his pushchair, and began stroking his cheek. It was obviously meant in a friendly way, but it made me so uncomfortable! I wanted to tell him not to touch my son, but I feared I would offend him and he would react negatively towards me. My husband is disgusted that I did not speak up, saying that he could have all kinds of germs or nasty diseases. I don't think he understands it from a lone female's point of view. Although I do wish I had said something. Can anyone share their experiences? Or if it hasn't happened to you, WWYD?

OP posts:
Fallingovercliffs · 10/12/2014 23:51

To be honest, if I knew people in real life who held some of the views being expressed on here, I would not want to teach, babysit for, or have their children around to my house to play. I would be terrified that the most innocent gesture would be misinterpreted by their parents and all kinds of accusations would be slung around.
Some very disturbing views on here.

Tsoukalosy · 10/12/2014 23:59

Falling I totally agree with you, its complete madness, If a someone wanted to abuse a child they would find a way to do it, so this crazy over the top behave where people get upset if you even smile at their child is ludicrous.

Toughasoldboots · 11/12/2014 00:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

evalyn · 11/12/2014 00:07

Well, Fallingovercliffs, I'll try. What's wrong with non-consensual touching? It's non-consensual, see? That's why it's wrong. Children can't give consent.

There are different kinds of abuse, different kinds of abusive behaviour. A major factor linking many kinds of abusive behaviour towards children is that of not respecting their autonomy. It behoves us as adults to take great care not to vitiate childhood autonomy as it develops. Non-consensual touching of a child does just that - it vitiates the child's autonomy and so is abusive of the child.

So, people who say there's nothing wrong with non-consensual touching are indeed (very likely without knowing it or meaning to) standing up for child abuse, since non-consensual touching of children is abusive in this way.

I don't expect you to change your mind overnight, as it were. I do think you and others are wrong in the way I've suggested. Not, perhaps, bad. But wrong. Maybe you could consider that possibility?

Tsoukalosy · 11/12/2014 00:10

Children don't have autonomy though, thats why parents have to consent to medical procedures a child would say no to.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 11/12/2014 00:29

Fuck me MN is on top twat form tonight

.situation: likely drunk man showing disturbing behaviour on a bus makes OP feel very uncomfortable when he decides to touch her child's face unasked

Response should be: poor you OP what an awful situation it's not acceptable for intoxicated people to poke at your baby unasked

Actual response: YOU CALLED HIM POOR! HOW DARE YOU!

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 11/12/2014 00:31

PS when a parent gets all pissy because a sober person cooed at their baby in Asda I'm the first to say stop being such a precious fucker. But this person made the OP feel uncomfortable for genuine reasons and I do think this situation is different

OneMillionScovilles · 11/12/2014 01:11

Wow - so many things happening here.

Per PP, I also used to love attention from strangers as a child - it made me feel very cute / interesting / whatever 9 year old vibe I had on that day.

I also feel strongly about supporting kids' bodily autonomy, to the point where if my (imaginary future) kids don't want to kiss Grandad with his evil scratchy 'tache that's 100% ok. Grandad can deal with it or shave.

Personally, as much as I go brain-melted for sweet kids toddling round the pub, I would never touch them without asking their parents'/guardians' permission. If I'm a random in a pub who wants to say hello to, or pick up, your daughter or granddaughter, that requires permission, regardless of whether I'm sober. (Permission should be instantly retracted with tinies if they seem uncomfortable but can't express it). I'm really not sure why people are taking that stance personally... :(

LemonySmithit · 11/12/2014 01:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gruntfuttock · 11/12/2014 02:06

LemonySmithit when you say that you don't like affection, do you only mean physical expressions of affection, or don't you like affection at all?

2blessed · 11/12/2014 02:42

I don't like strangers touching my children's faces. I tell people "no".

Thewrongmans · 11/12/2014 02:49

Was he licking your baby's cheek?

NobodyLivesHere · 11/12/2014 03:21

You know that you can't catch being pissed?

becominglessofalurker · 11/12/2014 04:37

I would probably say something about him being upset by strangers or say he isn't very well nd hope they stop. Then hopefully no offence would be ccaused

MrsMarcJacobs · 11/12/2014 04:55

In had a strangers dog lick my baby's face. I wasn't happy but there wasn't anything I could do about it. personally you do not describe this person positively so you were alert. I wouldn't like him touching my child if he was loud and drunk and scary. Saying that however, I have had people touch my child in a sweet way and I don't mind that, I see it as more as a reflection of the environment they were brought up in. It's usually people who love children who do this. if they were up to anything suspicious, they wouldn't do it in front of you.

LemonySmithit · 11/12/2014 07:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fallingovercliffs · 11/12/2014 10:40

No Evalyn I will not consider that possibility. I think people with your attitudes do far more harm than good and put all kinds of unnecessary fears of strangers in children's minds. Seeing potential abuse everywhere is not healthy and can lead to over protected and fearful children.

motherinferior · 11/12/2014 11:35

I quite like adults touching me, actually, in the sense of someone giving me a kiss (including people I don't know very well) and I certainly like being told how nice I'm looking.

Am clearly a perve. Oh well.

Fallingovercliffs · 11/12/2014 11:39

Actually I was at the dentist this morning and a boy of about 7 stood up to give his seat to an elderly man. The man patted him on the head and said 'good lad'. It didn't look to me like abuse, assault, inappropriate contact, non consensual touching or any of the other daft descriptions I've read on here. And obviously the other half a dozen people in the waiting room didn't see a problem either as none of them batted an eyelid.

Some people really do like to see sinister meanings in the most innocent of actions.

Tistheseasontobepissy · 11/12/2014 11:55

I hate it and I don't understand why people think it's ok to reach out and do so.

I live on a shit hole estate with loads of wired up weirdos. Many times people have reached out to touch dd with dirty nicotine stained , dirty fingers. I dont know them. Why do I want them touching my baby? Why do strangers think that is ok? I hate talking to random people, I'm very private so I don't want them feeling my baby's skin .

In Asda a cashier picked my dds dummy up of the floor then tried to push it in her mouth!

I don't understand why people think babies are public property they are not.

Tistheseasontobepissy · 11/12/2014 12:02

falling I don't see that as sinister either! but it's a bit different when some one makes a bee line for your baby and over steps your personal space.

Fallingovercliffs · 11/12/2014 12:06

It was addressed at some of the OTT posts on here Tis.

TimelyNameChangey · 11/12/2014 14:16

I am going to reiterate.

I do not see people as potential abusers

I just don't want them touching my children.

Is that so hard for you all to understand?

YOUR "right" to touch people's children does not exist.

So you cannot complain when people decide that you're not to do it.

Fallingovercliffs · 11/12/2014 14:21

No one said they had a 'right' to touch other people's children. We're just pointing out that a well meaning stranger patting a child on the head or give a baby's hand a friendly stroke is not doing 'something wrong' anymore than someone tapping an adult on the arm to get their attention is 'engaging in non-consensual touching'.
You can't wrap kids in cotton wool and refuse to allow anyone to touch them, as if they're some kind of possession as opposed to little human beings who need to learn to interact with other members of the human race.

TimelyNameChangey · 11/12/2014 14:27

Falling the anger and the scorn aimed at people like me would seem to point out the fact that yes, people DO think they have some sort of basic right to touch other people's children.

If the "well meaning stranger" is potentially at risk of upsetting a proportion of parents then they ARE doing something wrong.

It's wrong to assume that they can touch a child they do not know.

I'm not denying that a pat on the head is harmless.

What I am saying is that there is no automatic right to indulge in a desire to do this.

And that people should think before they touch other people's DC.

In terms of them being possessions...of course they're not but I am afraid that I do have more "rights" over my child than anyone else and if I don't want someone to touch them then I will say so.

My DC are not wrapped in cotton wool. They have physical contact from close friends and family.

That's all they need.