Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you don't do Santa/ Elf in the shelf you don't spoil it for others?

301 replies

CatWreathkeith · 09/12/2014 08:42

Last year Dneice was told matter of factly by a 4yo at school there is no such thing as Father Christmas and it's your parents. In reception.

This year another child has told her that you can buy an EOTS from Amazon, because her mum has shown her it.

Why? Why would you do that? Why not say there are only a few elves that get to leave the North Pole and we didn't get one?

Or if your child wants one that badly get a cheap one from the pound shop

Grrr Angry

OP posts:
squoosh · 09/12/2014 12:31

The Buddah Doodah.

The Druid umm, Fluid.

squoosh · 09/12/2014 12:31

The Druid Fluid would be a seemingly innocuous glass of water. But don't be fooled children!

CocobearSqueeze · 09/12/2014 12:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

meditrina · 09/12/2014 12:36

Pope on a Rope soap?

(yes there is such a thing)

squoosh · 09/12/2014 12:39

Vicar in Knickers.

Ludways · 09/12/2014 12:39

YABVVU to tell others what to say to their own children. Granted you want the secret kept but I won't lie to my dc for you, I can however ask them to keep the truth to themselves.

squoosh · 09/12/2014 12:40

Priest in a Fleece.

squoosh · 09/12/2014 12:40

Rabbi on a Magpie.

EbwyIsUpTheDuff · 09/12/2014 12:49

we don't celebrate christmas here. So my 4 and 2 year olds don't get santa.

the 4 year old knows the santas they take him to see at school are just men dressed up. BUT he also knows that it's very rude to tell the other children that something they believe isn't true. And I forwarned his teacher to be ready to squash what he might accidentally say, and that she might want some pre-planned things to say.

His friend's brothers and sisters were confused why he wasn't asking Father Christmas for anything... so I explained to them that of course Father Christmas only goes where people are celebrating christmas, so obviously he doesn't come to our house. Bless them, they were more worried that my children wouldn't get presents than any misbelief! (reassured them that my boys will be thoroughly spoiled with presents on the solstice instead)

I also play along with others ('phoning father christmas' for a friend when her 3 year old was behaving badly, helping with suggestions and getting a 99p elf for them...) and wouldn't dream of letting my 4 year old spoil it for them. To be fair, he's a good boy who quite likes knowing the secret that older children don't and hasn't said a word to any of them, not even the little "dears" who torment him for being different.

TimeWarp · 09/12/2014 12:59

I teach my DC that what other people believe is none of their business, and what they believe is none of other people's business. On the whole they just don't join in with conversations about Santa, but if pressed I wouldn't expect them to pretend to believe. What I've taught them to say is "Whatever your parents have told you, that's the truth. Because your parents wouldn't lie to you".

It was all a lot easier when we lived in London where there is no expectation that other people will have the same point of view as you on any matter at all (except standing on the right on escalators, everyone agrees on that). Over there just saying "we don't believe in Father Christmas" isn't surprising or offensive. Since we moved to Ireland there has been less tolerance of non-conformity and several parents who found that we don't believe in Santa have been quite nasty to me, even though my DC have never told other kids that he isn't real.

I think most kids don't care either way so long as they get presents, it seems to me that it's the parents who don't want to lose their emotional buzz.

Chennai · 09/12/2014 13:04

I don't think it's reasonable to ask people to shore up what you choose to tell (or not tell) your children.

Mine are adults now but they grew up with the Father Christmas fun - stockings etc - and enjoyed the magic. Lots of their friends were from different cultures and some - but by no means all - believed in FC. Being friends with non-believers didn't spoil the magic because children tend to believe what they want to believe. Well mine did, anyway!

In my experience, if they have doubts, or are told the 'truth' but are not ready to let go of the myth, they will find a way to rationalise it for themselves so they can go on believing.

In our family we don't believe in a god/gods, and my kids may well have said this to other children (despite my talks about respecting others' beliefs). I can't imagine that that telling their truth about god not being real shook any of their friends' religious foundations...

I've never heard of the elf stuff except on here. Sounds like a huge faff but I can see that it would be fun if you're into it. Can't be very widespread, though, surely? Or am I just out of touch?

Fallingovercliffs · 09/12/2014 13:14

Given that the vast majority of parents in British society encourage the myth of Santa Claus and that this has been going on for generations, I believe it is the responsibility of those who choose to veer from this path to ensure their children do not ruin tradition for the other children.

MonoNoAware · 09/12/2014 13:19

Our DC are 4 and 6. I feel awkward enough lying to them about Father Christmas, let alone trying to convince them that we have a toy elf that comes to life every night. However I have lovely memories of laying in bed on Christmas Eve imagining Father Christmas setting off from the North Pole on his logistically improbable journey, so we have kept that tradition.

Questions about Father Christmas are mostly answered with "I like to believe that...", however I have said that I don't for a minute believe that only 'good' children get presents and that I have never heard of a child not getting presents because they were not well behaved (and illustrated this example with some terribly behaved children from my own childhood, who all woke up to presents). Where this conflicts with other sources (e.g. our 'How Santa Works' book) I say "that doesn't seem very likely because...", or "do you believe that? I don't" being careful to never explicitly state whether it is true or not.

I have mixed feelings regarding Elf on the Shelf. Both DC came home from school on 1st Dec this year disappointed that they hadn't been visited by an elf, which did make me briefly consider introducing it next year. My worry with introducing it is that the subterfuge involved with EOTS is more obvious than with Father Christmas (where, if you can get past all the dodgy 'fake' FCs, most of the actual 'magic' is hidden from sight; as opposed to sat on the mantle in front of them for 24 days per year). I can't see that they would believe in EOTS for very long compared with Father Christmas, and would imagine that when they start to question EOTS their belief in FC would go with it.

So no EOTS here, although I reserve the right to change my mind if it's still going strong in 20 years!

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/12/2014 13:27

I don't think you can expect 4 year olds to play along with your game or lies or secrets or whatever you call them. They are 4 year olds!
You also can't expect parents to tell their children things just to appease yourself and your own child. Everyone is free to do as they please with regards to Santa. If you choose to be a Santa believing household then you have to be prepared for the very real possibility that another child might tell your child that it is all made up (unless you live in isolation inside a bubble). You have to think what you will tell your child if that happens, rather than expecting other people to tell their children things to appease you and your child.

My youngest DS doesn't believe in Santa and he finds it hilarious that most of his class haven't yet figured out that Santa isn't real. I have hinted that he shouldn't spoil their fun (he is older than 5 so can comprehend why) but he has put his own twist on it and tells people that if they want to believe then that is fine but he doesn't believe it all as it isn't logical and if they thought about it for a moment they might start to question it and he want pretend just for their sake. Children have minds of their own.

IceBeing · 09/12/2014 13:27

My DD has always hated the idea of santa and thinks he is in some way evil. We had to tell her not to worry and it was all pretend, because she was so upset by it all.

We do try and prevent her from reassuring other children that the terrifying ho ho man won't really come in their house...but she is quite determined to spread the good word!

CoolStoryBro · 09/12/2014 13:29

You can't go into a store here without seeing a billion and one Elves on the Shelves. When every child knows you can buy them in Target, how much of a mystery can it actually be?

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/12/2014 13:31

Given that the vast majority of parents in British society encourage the myth of Santa Claus and that this has been going on for generations, I believe it is the responsibility of those who choose to veer from this path to ensure their children do not ruin tradition for the other children.

Hahahahahah!! Try telling a five year old who has older siblings that he shouldn't during the tradition for others. Good luck with that one.
There is nothing that 5 year olds like better than glorifying in the knowledge that they know something their friends don't (it mKes them feel more grown up and more sensible).
People are assuming that 5 year olds can think like adults.

MonoNoAware · 09/12/2014 13:33

I didn't answer the AIBU.

I suppose that YANBU to suggest that we teach our non-believing children to respect the traditions of others, but YABU to think that can be done with 100% accuracy, particularly with regards to new traditions such as Elf on the Shelf where it is very easy to accidentally spoil the story (for example; I had no idea, up until reading this thread, that the toy elf was supposedly a real elf that came to life at night. I had assumed it was a sort of 'place marker' left by the real elves to remind children that they were spying on them. I knew they moved about, but assumed the 'real elves' did it mischievously as a joke). I have avoided my own children's 'why don't we have an elf' type questions with non-committal comments like "that sounds like fun". If either of them ask me directly I will say something along the lines of "it doesn't sound very likely, but if that's what X believes, it would be unkind to say you don't believe it is real"

Trunkisareshite · 09/12/2014 13:34

Encouraging your kids to believe in Father Christmas and teaching them about the 'true meaning' of Christmas can be combined- some people seem to think it has to be one or the other. My kids believe in Father Christmas they also understand about giving and receiving, off her own back my 4yr old has gone through her toys to give some to charity as 'some children don't have anything' and mentions that she is very lucky to get presents. I would be livid if an adult decided to ruin my kids fun by telling them FC isn't real, if they ask surely you just say 'ask your mum'- it isn't your place to do anything else. Kids who have sussed out the truth or been told by their parents should ideally be asked not to spoil it for other children but kids will be kids and if they want to blab they will- it's not nice of them to do but you can't police playground chat.

MonoNoAware · 09/12/2014 13:35

We do try and prevent her from reassuring other children that the terrifying ho ho man won't really come in their house...but she is quite determined to spread the good word!

That's hilarious!!

IceBeing · 09/12/2014 13:40

well she is only three...and naturally assumes everyone else must be terrified of the ho ho man...

and to be honest, who with their logical hat on wouldn't be scared....

littlejohnnydory · 09/12/2014 13:41

You seriously want your DC to believe that the elf on the shelf is real? And for other people to fanny about like they do with father Christmas in order to keep your children believing it???

Father Christmas himself - what can people do? We've told our children that father Christmas is a fun game to play and that it wouldn't be nice to spoil the game by keeping on saying that he isn't real. Can't do more than that.

Maybe other people can stop telling my children that they won't get Christmas presents if they're naughty?

squoosh · 09/12/2014 13:42

I don't think it's logical or illogical to be scared of Santa. Some kids are scared, some aren't.

Fallingovercliffs · 09/12/2014 13:46

No Inthedark I'm assuming that adults can think like adults and find ways of ensuring their 5 year old doesn't ruin an old Christmas tradition for the majority.

littlejohnnydory · 09/12/2014 13:46

And my children haven't told any others about Father Christmas to my knowledge.