to think that burlesque is not 'empowering'

[bauhausfan]

...but just women having been brainwashed into thinking that being sexy (ie fitting into that male stereotype of frilly undies, sexual availability, coyness etc) is their choice when actually it is just brain washing by the patriarchy. Just like breast implants -'I'm doing it for myself' - well, no, you're not. You're doing it so you can feel happier because you now fit society's pre-conceived idea of sexy/attractive.

I feel really depressed by the number of intelligent women I know who are buying into this bullshit. If I'm going to celebrate feminine power, I'd rather it was through women who have worked their way into the top echelons of society - not someone called Kitty or Dita waving their baps around. I feel despair - what happened to the 70s feminist dream?

"Nearly 90 percent of study participants have done this at least once in their lives, often accompanying their action with the exhortation 'You go, girl!' or, simply, 'Whooooooo!'" Klein said'

Not into burlesque myself but perhaps some women find it a turn on too?

And being empowered and feeling empowered can be 2 different things

Twizzle, isn't the debate about whether burlesque is empowering, rather than whether it's ok for women to choose to do things that make them happy
Personally speaking, I'm made happy by, for example, wearing makeup, but I don't kid myself that it empowers me to do so, and I am interested in thinking about why women generally wear makeup and men generally don't. It's interesting isn't it?

Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to like all the choices other women make, surely?

"I hate your choice but I respect your right to make it", that kind of thing.

Iggi, I agree, feminists are free to hate the choices other women make, sadly there seems little respect for others choices though.

Islandmama, you do know this thread is about burlesque? As has been pointed out, it doesn't always include stripping, is done in front a mixed audience of men and women and doesn't include stuffing money into bras?

Being a feminist doesn't mean I have to think nice things about other women - women can be just as lazy, venal & unpleasant as men, but that is irrelevant. I am anti racist, but that isn't because I think all black people are great, just that they are obviously equal. I am anti homophobia - doesn't mean I think all gay people are great.

I found the fat goth comment quite funny. I'm still a feminist, because women obviously should have equal rights to men. Doesn't mean women can't make bacd choices and be a bit stupid. But being silly and deluded doesn't stop any section of society deserving equality, because that trait is definitely equal opportunity.

I'm not sure how it differs from page 3 really other than that is in a newspaper, if it is viewed as empowering so is a page 3 model

whattheseithakasmean, I always assumed Feminism was more about judging women by who they are, what they do and what they can do, not their dress size. I hadn't realised you could laugh at women and call them fat and still be a feminist.

Context, Tron.
I fully support the No More Page 3 campaign.

And Island, burlesque and stripping are not the same, as explained up thread.
If you think they are you're going to the wrong shows.

I have no idea what you mean by context, both appeal to males

If you really don't know what I mean by context, I can only suggest you read the FAQs on the NMP3 website, where they cover this in some detail.
If you genuinely think porn in a daily newspaper available to children is the same as me dancing in an entirely consensual and adult environment, then I don't even know what..

I understand that one is limited to adults nevertheless there are similarities I find it strange that people campaigning against page 3 do not view burlesque in the same way

You are qualified to say that you found that particular act silly and offensive, certainly.

No, it's not 'empowering'. But I don't think it's anti-feminist either.

It is a performance (actually, it is many different performances so it is probably impossible to state definitively that it is one thing or another but bear with me...) that often explores sexuality and ideas about femininity (particularly, but also masculinity). It challenges society's narrow view of what is attractive/sexy. And it is performed as much for the female gaze as the male.

I'm not sure any performance can be 'empowering', but that doesn't mean it is akin to page 3 or prostitution, ffs.

lurker as far as I am concerned the only 'qualification' for feminism is thinking women should have equal rights, which is so obvious it barely needs a name.

If I don't fit your view of feminism, just think of me as pro-equality, or something.

I am not anti-burlesque, people do lots of stupid things I don't agree with, but it isn't my personal dictatorship, so they can do what they like. But I do find the 'empowering' argument tiresome as it seems women are being fobbed off with empowerment instead of real power.

If "empowering" means I can make make my own choice then so is every other action we choose ie to work, not to work , to marry, to change name, to take page 3 work, to "obey" in marriage - provided they are done of our own free will.

Just read the whole thread. We've had the definition of 'empowerment'; posters are seemingly at odds about what is and what isn't real empowerment. Interested in the definition of 'Burlesque', as there seems to be a similar issue.

From the Oxford English Dic.
Definition of burlesque:
noun
1 An absurd or comically exaggerated imitation of something, especially in a literary or dramatic work; a parody.

2 A variety show, typically including striptease.

Origin
Mid 17th century: from French, from Italian burlesco, from burla 'mockery', of unknown origin.

So ... Burlesque is a ''comically exaggerated striptease''?

A parody of a striptease?