Not aibu but absolutely gutted about the mother and her baby found dead

[Goodmum1234]

I didn't know her but having only given birth ten weeks ago myself and now seeing her photo on the news I am devastated for her, her baby and her family ?? having had severe pnd four years ago I can see how things can go so wrong if no one knows how you feel and intervenes. RIP x

Here is also a link to a very good organisation that works on Postpartum Psychosis www.app-network.org/

I would suggest that if midwives have a suspicion of MH decline after the birth, that they are entitled to prescribe AD's to help the mother in those terribly difficult first 6 weeks/mths

I write as someone who 'hid' the illness after birth of my 2nd very well. I did have midwives 'talk' to me they even sent in their psych who basically said yes lots and said get in touch if you need us

The point is this - I would NEVER ask someone for help/admit to having MH probs/ tell a medic for mainly fear they would remove the baby or worse send me away

Such dramatic outcomes need to be clarified - these medical staff carry more of an air of authority than perhaps they realise which is intimidating to a new mother. Either they'll clam up or waffle on to make it look to the medics like they're coping.
There is a lot to have a simple conversation like take these ADs for the first few mths as a temp measure.

I'm well now enjoying life with my lovely little family but I was not 'well' before I was discharged with dd2 and this wasn't picked up on. I feel lucky to be alive this week more than ever.

123up I could not disagree more with your suggestion of midwives prescribing anti depressants. Some women with MH needs will have more complex conditions and prescribing an anti depressant could be harmful e.g it might trigger a manic episode in a person with un diagnosed bipolar disorder.

That's good to know Crumble. I guess I'm speaking from experience that if I had been given the AD's sooner than 18 mths after the birth, then the chemical imbalance which affected thoughts such as whether I should stay on the motorway bridge or swerve the car off it into the river below /whether I should just end it all, may never have clouded my daily life of trying to raise my kids. It's only with hindsight 6 yrs later that I can see what would have worked for me.

I think it would be better if midwives could refer a doctor over who could do an evaluation and work with the mother if they have suspicions.

With something like a known MH problem like Schizophrenia, they really do need to keep an eye on new mother's who are at risk for psychosis simply for not being on any meds even without childbirth.

They also need to provide counseling for mothers and stop the "breast is best" brigade for these types of cases and provide support that it just isn't medically safe for mother or baby to breast feed. Help them come to terms with that and not feel guilty about it.

I live in Bristol and have had two babies born at St Michaels. I have mixed feelings about the hospital. Some positive and negative experiences.

But this incident has knocked the city for six. We are all gutted.

And what bothers many of us is how this lady managed to walk through the streets like this with no one thinking to help. She must have been so obvious.

I too live in Bristol ANC have had 2 babies at St Micheals. My experiences were good, especially the community midwives who look after you through pregnancy to labour. There was one midwife/nurse/sister? who made me feel awful. She had a terrible manner and was really curt and abrupt who had a way of making you feel like you were doing everything wrong. I hope she's not still there. It has been 8 years since I was there.

The CCTV picture looks like the main foyer of the whole hospital to me. From what I remember people had to buzz into the ward to be let in but I could freely walk out. I remember going down to the shop once.

People in Bristol are friendly, community minded people. I find it amazing that no-one asked her if she ok in her slippers. I like to think I would.

I too think it would be positively dangerous is MW were able to prescribe ADs - there are far more complex conditions that can get worse/triggered post-natally than 'just' PND.

IMO the answer lies in communication - good and effective communication. By everybody involved in the care of a perinatal women: MWs, HVs, doctors. Regular follow-up that does not get cancelled due to pressure on clinics . Repeated conversations if somebody seems to be struggling.

MW are only involved in post-natal care up to 10 days after the birth - I don't think that they are best placed to diagnose any MH problem although they may be in a position to register concerns and to refer. The problem is then with timely FU.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2863261/Did-tragic-mother-fear-baby-going-taken-Charity-worker-dead-daughter-referred-social-workers-three-times-weeks-leading-birth.html

Seems like she had been referred to SS and was scared the baby was getting taken into care.

As the baby had a SW this is now very bad news for pregnant ladies with MH problems. Just like after Baby P there is going to be a knee jerk reaction and SWs will not want to take any risks, they will just remove more babies at birth.

I don't know how to overcome this fear - babies taken away at birth.
Equally the fear of disclosing how somebody feels to HCP.

Babies are NOT taken away at birth from mother with MH problems if they engage with treatment, take medication, accept help.
The problem is of course that thinking can get so disordered that engaging with services can become very scary indeed which is what then makes tragedies like this one more likely.

SS are there to enable babies to stay with their parents as this is usually in both the child's and the mother's best interest.

We desperately need more mother and baby units in the whole country, NOT knee-jerk reactions from SS.

I hope this is not what's going to happen.

It is only natural when SS get involved to start fearing your baby is being taken away. They got involved with me at 6 months pregnant, then they wanted a parenting assessment in a MABU and then when I passed that they came round visiting for a further 6 months.

I actively tried NOT to bond with ds. I did not want to bond with him in case he got removed as that would make the pain worse.

All the professionals involved were very good and honest, and kept reassuring me they had no plans to remove him. However there are loads of stories online about lying SWs and Forced Adoption and when I read that I thought the SWs might be lying to me and one day they would just pitch up with the police and a care order.

They did safeguard ds and without the MABU who knows I may have got the psychosis, however it was the single most stressful thing I have ever gone through and ruined the first year I had with ds.

I wonder whether your kind of story is available online, raltheraffe?

I think this is part of the problem - any vulnerable person looking online will find lots of horror stories (which are not easily verifiable), but less positive stories about how somebody was supported through a very serious illness.

I am sorry that your first year with your DS was so tainted by these events and I hope that things are much better now.

That is the problem pacific, when you do an online search about social workers you get lots of stuff about Forced Adoption and babies being removed from supposedly perfect parents for no reason. Or you get the stuff about the likes of Baby P where a child should have definitely been removed but SWs failed to act.

They are made out to be incompetent, lying baby snatching idiots.

I have never read stories online about how SWs have done their job well and helped people.

It was not really the SW who scared the crap out of me, it was websites like Forced Adoption. I was absolutely terrified.

Which is why these websites are dangerous

This phenomenon (hearing lots of horror stories, very few good ones and next to no 'neutral' ones) is known as "reporting bias" - People are much more prone to sharing horror stories than good ones. And the ones were somebody just did their job don't make the 'news' at all.

I really despise the Daily Mail (and no, I don't read it so won't ) . Using this awful tragedy to further their agenda.

Utterly disgusting. How do stories like that help anyone?

This case was only last month www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/03/student-schizophrenia-son-adopted?CMP=twt_gu

I'd imagine she was terrified of losing her child since even people who are in recovery not crisis have their children removed.

This case has really hit me hard, schizophrenia is in my family and after incredibly traumatic birth of DD1 I came closest I have ever been to losing it and very nearly ran away with DD after bitch MW from hell told me if I didn't stop crying she was reporting me for PND. (Have never had PND but did have PTSD). Post partum is incredibly incredibly vulnerable time for any woman let alone those with MH difficulties.

Sorry, won't be reading the link. Befuddled by DM rage there.

I did not get the psychosis pacific, they wanted me to go in the MABU IN CASE I got the psychosis, as it was a safe environment and if I had gone psychotic there would have been no chance I could have hurt me or ds.

I was stable throughout the whole admission, it was for an IP assessment.

At the time I was quite angry about it. The courts do not have the right to lock up known criminals because they are at risk of committing a crime, they have to do the crime to get sent down. Yet I was locked up and I was not ill and did not want to be there.

However having seen what can happen when safeguarding is not done, as in Charlotte's case, I can now see they did the right thing admitting me.

These decisions are always really hard ones and it is easy to get it wrong.
Believe me, professionals involved agonise over them.
I suppose the best interest of the child has to override the woman's wishes . Really horrible ethical dilemma, but vulnerable children must come first IMO.

I too am not reading the DM link - I know it would give me The Rage and I am full of pre-Christmassy goodwill and love

Having read this thread I think SS got it right with me.

Surely it is better to unnecessarily detain 1000 women who would not have harmed anyone, then let one woman kill herself and her child.

I just hate how articles like that frighten people who are vulnerable. They publish and don't think of the impact on people.

It does shred your confidence. Only last week I got into a panic as I thought we were getting referred back because ds is a bit slow with potty training. The nursery manager said I was a brilliant mum and wishes other mums were so good at talking to their children as I am. However the slightest thing and I panic they are coming back.

It is now years since they have been involved but I get anxiety whenever someone knocks at our door that they are back again.

Luckily I have a brilliant HV who I can approach if I have any worries.

LadyCurd that midwife sounds like a complete cow. Reporting someone for PND, as if having PND is something bad that deserves punishment!

Sorry you had such an awful experience.

Yup she was, there were loads of other horrific things she did too, thankfully hospital upheld my complaint about her and she ended up being referred to chief of midwives for retraining. For every incredible midwife think there is a bad egg and the bad eggs can be the ones that can be the straw that breaks a woman's sanity. :( I hope Charlotte Bevan did not encounter a bad egg midwife in her time at hospital. :(