To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

To be honest, I would advise him to apologize to the girl, as requested, and never speak to her again. Just blank her. That will avoid future risk of upsetting her and any risk of any miscalculated comments. Especially since their relationship was not great to begin with.

Racist- Sorry. Others are right though, it doesn't mean your son is a racist. He needs to learn this language is inappropriate and an apology is a good place to start.

This happens a lot in schools unfortunately. My son has been to 4 different schools here in the UK and has had to deal with this kind of bulling at some point in every one of them. Most currently he was told "Go back to your bloody country you stupid immigrant." Charming. He's been taunted for the way he speaks, that everyone "hates Americans" ect... The schools however seem to think since being an American isn't technically a race, it doesn't fall under racist speech. It's just as hurtful and wrong however. Don't excuse your sons behavior- help him learn from it.

I agree ofa yes apologise to the girl and avoid her, engage brain before mouth!

Sounds like a bit of a witch hunt to me. Analysing kid's comments and then entering them in some tome of shame is heavy-handed. Do they do that with all types of comments?

School is a place to learn from your mistakes - all the teacher need do was take your DS to task and say that he shouldn't make comments about people's language as it causes offence.

sounds like this girl also needs a talking to.....your ds was trying to stop her saying something horrible?

Is there anything that isn't 'racist' or 'sexist' or 'ageist' these days. Soon we won't be able to say anything. It was just an child saying the first thing that came into his head - I doubt he even though about it.

Can't even say "that sounds double-Dutch to me" or "It's all Greek to me" these days without it being 'racist'. The world has gone mad I tellya!

As far as I know when racist incidents are identified (and if the victime complained that it felt like racism then it will absolutely be reported as racist. The perpetrator doesn;t get to be the arbitrator of whether they were offensive or not!) they are categorised by serviousness. I would expect this to be category 1 (least serious) - a one of incident with no serious harm (emotional or physical) and where the perpetrator didn't intend the comment to be racist.

Would you feel better Claig and OP if you knew that perpetrators identities are not reported. the reports are used to identify a pattern which could mean a problem. in a particular school/area.

Yes, it's racist, but your son is only 11 and therefore I would suggest that HE isn't racist, just doesn't quite understand yet how offensive it might be to be told to shut up essentially because you're Indian/a Hindu. What he meant to say was "stop speaking so fast and berating me, I don't like it".

Sounds to me like you're taking it well though.

Actually, Smashley, I'm pretty sure nationality IS included in race hate legislation, so being bullied for being American is covered. Check it out, and inform your school. It's not OK.

"Note that this only applies to situations where someone is alleging something occurred when it did not in fact take place. It does not apply to the situation where someone may try to justify their actions with comments like “I didn’t mean any harm” or “I was only joking”. If the victim or anyone else involved considers the incident to be racially motivated, then it should be recorded as such."

new.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/10547/Guidance-on-Reporting-and-Responding-to-Racist-Incidents.pdf

This is from 2010, so it seems like there is no use complaining if I read that right.

When DD was in year 7, a boy called her Indian friend a "black c*". As I remember, his only punishment was to apologise and a lunchtime detention. So clearly some schools take a harsher view on this than others.

I'd say what the OP's DS said was mildly racist, but then again, he's only 11 or 12, and it was probably said in the heat of the moment. "Hindu" isn't a language, by the way - I think it would have been slightly less offensive if he'd said "Hindi". But that's the pedant in me.

Is there anything that isn't 'racist' or 'sexist' or 'ageist' these days

Yes

Sometimes I manage to get through whole days sometimes without making such comments. Sometimes even whole weeks and months. I'm pretty sure I got through a whole year once without.

It wasn't actually that difficult.

Totally agree chimes it's sad really.

Kew your not an 11 year old kid are you!

'Would you feel better Claig and OP if you knew that perpetrators identities are not reported.'

Yes. It is assigning someone's name to an incident that is worrying for their future to me, if that is what happens on a school file or record etc. I don't know what happens.

I am an Indian, born and brought up in India, studied in the US & UK, and now back in India. I just want to say that I find NOTHING racist in what the OP's child said (even though he obviously was impatient and rude to his pal). If a non-Indian child (or even adult) told me to "stop speaking hindu", I'd just laugh and correct him. But then, I am mature enough (not to mention having worked with people from other cultures) to be tolerant of non-Indians' perspective of my culture. A child cannot be expected to react the same way.

The word "Hindu" has religious connotations, not racist ones; this often means it's more dangerous. Coupled with the tone of your child's voice when he said that, it most probably came across as derogatory and insulting. Unfortunately, OP, your child chose to say it another child, and I think the parents of the other child have it taken it very seriously. I hope this gets resolved without any issues.

W

Undecided if this is racist or not. I read it as she was speaking fast and being silly so it may not have been obvious it was English.
So his comment was the same as saying "stop speaking a flipping language you know I don't understand".
I could find myself saying something similar if DH 'goes off on one' and starts speaking (ranting) with a fast, broad Scottish accent.

'As I remember, his only punishment was to apologise and a lunchtime detention. So clearly some schools take a harsher view on this than others.'

But if the parents had complained, I think the school would have acted differently.

Still hurting the voice of reason.

No but I have a 9 year old - even he manages now. He's even stopped calling people fat because I've explained it isn;t nice.

He gets it. I'm pretty sure an 11 year could too.

There's no need to over react - it was a racist comment. He should understand that it isn't on and to find another way to express his frustratin. If she's that irritating he should have plenty of choice without resorting to a pop at her language/religion.

'I hope this gets resolved without any issues. '

I don't think it can because the parents have complained and that is the end of it, apparently.

It does not apply to the situation where someone may try to justify their actions with comments like “I didn’t mean any harm” or “I was only joking”. If the victim or anyone else involved considers the incident to be racially motivated, then it should be recorded as such."

new.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/10547/Guidance-on-Reporting-and-Responding-to-Racist-Incidents.pdf

You have no idea how the school reacted to hackmums DD - they could well have reported it. How on earth would you know if they don;t tell you?

I do not be I've this was a racist incident more apt to describe it as inappropriate language, in my opinion that should be dealt with as other inappropriate language is dealt with not escalate issues which is what appears to have happened here.

Anyway unless I'm totally losing my marbles hackmums DD and OP's DS have had exactly the same punishment haven't they?

Detention and apology.

I've talked to him again about what she was saying. She was talking directly to him. She was speaking in English. But she was switching all the words around and putting them in a nonsensical order. What she was saying did not make sense. It wasn't that he couldn't understand what she was saying. In fact she is English and has always lived here. Her parents are Indian.