To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

'Names don't go to the council, just numbers of incidents.'

Check with the headmaster. Do names and racist incidents go on someone's school record?

I think it's a completely racist and offensive comment, sorry.

He deserves to be made an example of

Really?

You just make him understand how rude he was being and why that would be hurtful and then move on. The reason we call them children and keep them at home is that they don't know how to behave until they are taught.

Having dealt with that you then need a word with DS' head of year. Because telling him his "comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book." is way over the top. The implication that he is marked for life as a racist is at least as hurtful as DSs comment and the head of year is an adult and should know better.

Would he have said that comment to a white girl?
I wonder if a girl was white but not english -- would it still count as racist comment?

'Nobody wants to read a Daily Mail article, Claig!'

But this is important. I have previously read somewhere about incidents being added to school record. Not sure if that is true and if so who gets to view this record in the future.

Can someone in the know explain if that is wrong or true?

What would you write to the head mama? What would you be asking for? The right to tell Indian girls not to speak Hindi when you want them to just shut up?

The double Dutch argument reminds me of my brother who compares the term 'paki' to 'yank', Brummie, scots and so on.

One is meant to be descriptive. One is intended to be derogatory.

Of course, we could have hundreds of mortally offended Dutch people but it isn't likely not least because the language wasn't the insult. The insult was the fact he couldn't understand her because she was a different culture to him.

Having said that I do feel for your DS OP, if things are as you described them.

He isn't the first to blurt something out without thinking.

I would take this as an opportunity to apologise but also to explain why it happened and I'd want the girl herself reprimanded.

In my experience most pre-teen squabbles are six of one!

If a French girl was speaking English, you think anyone would tell her to stop speaking Hindi?

I think I would expect an 11yo to know better.

By comparison, a friend's 7 yo DS had a "racist incident" logged on his school record and friend was called in to see HT, for telling a black child in his class he "looked like a poo". I was at that because I believe he could easily have made the same comment to any child (as children of that age often do - my DC are certainly always saying similar to each other) and that the colour of the child's skin never entered his mind. Having said that, obviously it was a) rude and b) a particularly unfortunate comment to make to a black child and a good opportunity to introduce the concept of racism to him.

But I do think OP's example is different.

Is she Hindu, and does she have a strong accent?

The racist incidents log is entirely separate to the pupil record held by the local authority claig.

OP, in your last comment 'whatever she was trying to say' makes it sound like she speaks with an accent, which your DS was pretending not to understand. In which case he was being both extremely rude and racist. I'd be very pissed off if someone pretended not to understand my DS's accent to put him down.

Can someone in the know explain if that is wrong or true?

I don't know, but I'll be amazed if such a person writes for the Daily Mail, so I'm not sure how they can help!

'The racist incidents log is entirely separate to the pupil record held by the local authority claig. '

SolomanDaisy does that means that no racist incident is added to a pupil's school record against the name of a pupil?

The Daily Mail reports on the type of legislation that Labour or any government bring in that may affect children's and people's rights.

The racist incidents log is held by the council, who have a uniform pupil database. It won't be held on the council's database. Individual schools will make their own decisions on what information they retain internally.

so it stays on record and gets brought up I uni interviews??

doesn't seem fair at all

It was racist.

Yes I believe it is a racist comment because it uses a minority language (albeit incorrectly!) as a synonym for being silly or talking nonsense. How is that not a racist comment?!

I accept he probably didn't mean it that way - but now he's learnt that using someones (minority) language as shorthand for talking rubbish isn't acceptable.

Totally understandable that your son would get it wrong and a learning exercise for him.

More than a little shocked that your DH is in the "PC gorn mad" brigade though and I would just love to hear how he plans to rationalise to the school that "talking Hindu" instead of "talking bollocks/being an irritating arse/being silly" isn't an issue of race/ethnicity/religion. I mean if you substituted German/American/French would that have the same message - would it instantly be recognisable as a put down equivalent to talking double dutch? No.

Well, if I understand the expression 'double dutch' correctly (it's the first time I hear it, but then, English is not my native language), it refers to the fact that it isn't a pleasant language to hear, and or understandable. Seeing as the dutch language has to be protected and is sometimes dismissed in Belgium, I would think that this expression can be quite insulting to dutch-speakers. Now, i really would not like to make a case about this particular expression, because, frankly, it's not a big deal, but if you want to tell somebody not to be racist and to use this expression instead, I would consider you quite misguided. And ignorant.

SolomanDaisy, can any of this information be accessed by universities or employers in the future for an incident that occurred when a child was 11 years old, say?

How long are pupil records kept by schools and who is entitled to access them?

It doesn't matter what you or the rest of us think. The girl in question and her parents received the comment and considered it to be racist. The school have therefore dealt with it accordingly.

I wouldn't label him as racist, but he needs to know that derogatory comments about race and religion said in earnest are unacceptable. This isn't a kid making a stupid joke trying to show off or thinking he's being funny. He used her religion as an insult in the heat of anger. That needs to be addressed and taken seriously.

Honestly, I'd have a talk that when you're angry at someone you yell at them for what they did not what they are. It's a good lesson for adults to learn too.

"so it stays on record and gets brought up I uni interviews?? shock

doesn't seem fair at all"

Absolutely, if that is the case, it is bad for children's rights.