To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

It is already resolved - OP's DS has been given detention, and will write an apology. That is the resolution.

HEad of year was silly to make a dramatic statement about reporting to council as your DS will not be named.

Going by that link it seems they only record the number/type of incidents and not the names of pupils so that's ok.

Has anyone actually looked up the definition of racism or are they making their own minds up, just out of interest?

So we are now having to teach our children (shall we start at 4?) what to say and how not to say things. We are going to have a generation who are too scared to say anything in case they get into trouble.

And, let's face it, we also have a generation of entitled young people who know they can call the 'racist card' over just about anything.

I think it is sad and appalling.

What do you mean when you say she was talking fast and being silly? It she was putting on a strong accent and playing up to a perceived stereotype of some kind, then it would be in context and I would say the school are wrong. If the comment related to a conversation that he had been having with the girl where the girl had asserted that Hindu friends or associates tend to talk quickly, then I would say the comment was misguided, but not racist.
If the only reason he referred to the religion was her origin or religious beliefs, then I would say it was a racist comment.
This is not to say your son is racist, but it is important that the gravitas I the matter be understood and I would support the punishment. Far better to learn now and think before speaking in the future than end up causing serious offence/ being sacked/ being on the receiving end I violence later in life.

It was derogatory, definitely. Intentionally or not, it was. He probably won't do it again because he's learned he was wrong-that's the most important thing, right?

Reading the Surrey document and from what SolamanDaisy said, the name of the pupil involved is not sent to the Local Council on the racist incident report. So that is OK.

I would check with the headmaster if your DS will be identified in any student file or record as having been involved in a racist incident.

But I don't think there is much you can do about it and God only knows if complaining or objecting just makes it all worse.

"We are going to have a generation who are too scared to say anything in case they get into trouble."

That is the way the nanny state political parties seem to be taking us step by step.

Soon we won't be able to say anything. It was just an child saying the first thing that came into his head - I doubt he even though about it.
Bloody nonsense. I manage on a daily basis, as do my children.

'Has anyone actually looked up the definition of racism or are they making their own minds up, just out of interest?'

Haven't they made it somewhat subjective - whatever the victim thinks is racist?

'If the victim or anyone else involved considers the incident to be racially motivated, then it should be recorded as such'

Not much defence possible against that as far as I can see.

Great on you Dawndonna. Clap clap

OP,
It does not matter how fast the other child was talking. Your child is NOT supposed to mention her religion (not even gently) to make her talk faster! This is like me telling a Caucasian colleague, "Stop speaking Christian". Or an Moslem, stop speaking Moslem.

I am not saying your son is a racist - but he MUST learn not to use volatile words while communicating with a member of another race/culture.

W

Oh I know PiratePanda- I brought that up to them every time. I have just come to the conclusion that because we are "just American" it's ok. In fact one of his teachers told me that he had been trying to get my son to just laugh with the bullies and make fun of himself. Seemed like it was easier than trying to teach the bullies themselves what was and wasn't appropriate.

Bloody nonsense. I manage on a daily basis, as do my children.

Well good for you. I am sure you will be soooooo proud when your children get through to their 20s without having said or thought anything wrong (that you know about!).

one of them includes the words "social actions", which imo covers telling an indian girl who is speaking english to stop talking flipping hindu.

If she was saying english words in a silly way - that in no way made them hindi and he knew that. So he needs to take an honest look at why he made that particular choice when a much more logical thing to say would have been "stop talking crap X" or "why are you being silly?"

An important part of deciding if something was racist is how the person it is directed at feels. It is considered unacceptable to dismiss how someone feels and how they perceive something and try to dictate what they may or may not consider racist.

Just accept that your son said something that was considered to be racist. You did the right thing by talking to him about it. Talk to him some more. Forget about dictionary definitions and technicalities and trying to decide/determine whether someone was justified or is allowed to feel that something that was said to them felt racist because that is actually quite a hotly debated part of the whole issue - the right to decide for yourself if you feel something said to you felt racist.

That said, I think that an apology is sufficient and your son should not be tarred and feathered here. He just needs to understand why what he said was interpreted as racist and to think about his choice of words in future.

I think if he is used to international schools in Asia then he probably just needs to find out what is acceptable and unacceptable here. The culture and how people say things can be quite different. He just needs to readjust.

Girl was being sill, talking made up words in a fast voice, op ds said something silly which yes inaprpriate, was not racist. He said nothing against her race or skin colour. Yes we live in a big brother state, it's becoming like a communist society. I bets all these racist agreers are probably white Anglo Saxon

whatever the victim thinks is racist? With the very thin skin people are developing nowadays, that will go great, I am sure...

Some are very quick to jump on the offended/racist bandwagon and claim woe is me!

I think the unfortunate implication of the school's action is that racist insults are worse than other kind of insults. So the boy's comment was slightly unpleasant and could be taken as mildly racist. Suppose he'd said to her, "Shut up, you ugly bitch" - what then? A much nastier comment, but not a racist one. Is that treated more or less seriously?

So Vanillabird - if a child of 3 or 4 says "look at that brown/black person mummy", are you going to jump on said child and tell them they are being racist? At what age are we to start this 'racist' stuff with little children?

Do you think a child of 3 or 4 can reason enough to understand that what they are saying is wrong? Can they start reasoning at 5.....or 6?

At what age do children start to learn that no-one can say anything to them that is vaguely racist without that person being hauled up in front of head teacher, school governors, magistrates?

He may not have meant it that way but it sounds derogatory to my ears. The fact that he has had such an international education may actually work against him in that he may be used to taking the piss and giving as good as he gets with his friends of all backgrounds and may not understand how offensive that comes across out of context.

Just think for example that the girl's ethnic background might not be Hindu-speaking at all. Maybe they are an English-speaking household even if she is ethnically Indian or maybe she speaks a different Indian language e.g. Gujarati. Then your son's comment would be like saying to an Italian girl 'stop speaking flipping Spanish' I.e. ignorant.

Sad for your son they he had to learn the hard way to be careful in what he says to others. It would have been nice u if the girl's parents felt they could raise it with you directly but presumably they don't know you well enough / feel confident to do so.

Spot on Hackman. Both children were being unkind, both should have been dealt with.....as children!