To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

I was speaking about this to a friend of mine who is from Pakistan.She doesn't feel it's a racist remark. I have to admit though I can understand why the girl reported it.

if he said "shut up indian"
that would be racist
but he said something about hindu which is a religion not a race. a white person can be hindu its a religion
i think the school is right to do what they did but im just saying it wasnt really racist

And what do you think the chances of anyone telling a white girl to stop speaking Hindi are, Cristina? Just a white girl, talking in an annoying and incomprehensible way? You really think it would cross their mind to say 'stop talking Hindi?'. Unless they just equated Hindi with drivel, which would of course be hugely problematic in itself, wouldn't it?

He said it because she is Indian.

Racism can be on the grounds of race, ethnic origin or nationlity. As he was saying "stop speaking hindu" although he got it wrong and meant hindi, he was clearly telling the girl to stop speaking an Indian language, even though she was speaking English. He only did this because she is of Indian origin, therefore the basis of his derogatory comment intend to demean her was based on her ethnic/national origin. This, readers, is what makes it racist.

If anyone is in doubt the Equality and Human Rights Commission explains it clearly

The comment was undeniably racist, maybe not in intent, but in effect.

The girl's parents were concerned enough to complain about it, and, after a week of seeming inaction, the girl took matters into her own hands, possibly. The girl taking matters into her own hands was wrong as well, however, that is for the school to deal with, not OP's family.

Schools can and should keep a record of even minor incidents like these. This might well be a one off, and would therefore cause no problems for the boy later on, however, it might be a small incident in a long line of them (and no, OP, I am not suggesting this to be the case with your son, I am merely illustrating the point using him) and as such, not keeping a record of each incident would lead to the school being unable to provide proof of long term problems should it come to a decision to permanently exclude such a child. Such a record could also be used in order to explain and illustrate the effects that potential parental abuse is having on a child.

OP, your DS should just do his detention, write his apology and learn from this not to be impulsive in his speech. He should also get an apology from the girl for taking matters into her own hands.

However, if it's right that there were no witnesses then surely the same applies to whatever the girl told her parents, who then made the complaint?

No, it doesn't, Puzzled. Because OP's ds fully admits to what he said. He apparently also admits that all she was doing to deserve that was talking quickly and being silly. So there isn't really any room for argument about the salient facts.

Christina OP has acknowledged her son meant Hindi, which is an Indian language, and that the girl was born here, is English of Indian descent, and was speaking English. Are you saying that if someone misplaces a vowel, this therefore means they cannot be racist? And hat if someone refers to an overwhelmingly Indian religion, when talking to a person of Indian ethnicity, when intending to be derogatory to that person, that that isn't racist, either? Because if so, I'm afraid I think your thinking here is a little confused.

OP I think you do need to talk to the school, to discuss how they open a conversation with their kids on race, in a way that doesn't demonise your son, but recognises that he said something without thinking, which he shouldn't have. I really do encourage you to watch the brief talk I linked to. It's been used in schools for precisely that purpose, because it talks about how being a good person is a process we all have to work on every day of our lives, and doesn't preclude mistakes, and how that applies as much to race as anything else. And I think it gives you some useful strategies in approaching the school on this one, personally.

a white person can be hindu its a religion
In theory yes but the numbers must be tiny. It is a religion intrinsically connected to its country of origin. Not one that really seeks/attracts converts.

The argument that you can't be racist if you are offensive about members of certain religions is a very old and tired one regularly trotted out by racists. The fact is that when people are being offensive about people of the Moslem, Sikh and Hindu religion it is perfectly obvious that it is directly down to a perception of the colour, or likely colour, of the skin of the person concerned. If that is the basis for the prejudice of the person concerned, then it is certainly racial prejudice.

Haven't read the whole thread but out of interest would you consider it racist if he had said stop speaking double dutch to a dutch person or it's all greek to me to a greek person?

Nope, because they are both idiomatic expressions which are not intended to cause offence.

"stop speaking hindu/hindi", to a person of Indian extraction, with clear intent to shame her about her ethnic background, is not an idiomatic expression. It is a racist one.

Interesting article if you are a language dweeb like me

"It's all Greek" and "double dutch" simply mean something is difficult to understand. Saying a language is difficult to learn is not offensive.

Saying to someone speaking the same language as you to stop speaking a language ethnic heritage is offensive in a racist way.

Now if he had said "stop speaking Welsh", if it were a welsh classmate speaking English, it could be recorded as a racist incident. However I am willing to bet that he probably wouldn't have done, if the hypothetical welsh classmate were white. He was using the colour of the girl's skin as the basis of his insult. It was racist.

Having read the whole thread, I'm quite shocked at some of the responses.

The boy's comment was indeed racist. He was making a judgement about her based on the colour of her skin. He pointed out the difference in a derogatory manner in his response to her. There was no need to bring in 'Hindu/Hindi' at all. He simply needed to tell her to, for example, 'stop talking nonsense/stop talking so fast you're not making any sense'. He intentionally chose his words to put her down in a way which is not acceptable.

Having attended a school where the majority of students were white and ethnic minorities a massive minority, I suffered much racism.

One boy in particular had told me to stop talking 'indian' when I never spoke in any language apart from English. Three girls in the year above followed me around school saying 'bud bud ding ding' (the term many used for a bindi). I had girls call me paki, go back home to your own country, smells like curry (barely ate it when growing up) amongst a whole load of other racist shite.

If anyone had said to me 'stop talking Hindu' I would perceive that as a racist attack as they are using my skin colour to point out a difference when it is not necessary.