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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

589 replies

HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 17:13

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Frogme · 26/11/2014 08:14

I think the op has been given a hard time. I understand where you are coming from op. Yes, it this comment was inappropriate, which the op accepts. But there was no racist intent and they have good, even best, friends of different nationalities. They are not racists. I would also be upset that that label is being given to ds.

KateeGee · 26/11/2014 09:21

"An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him"

But when it is pointed out that the school is quite right in recording this as a racist comment, suddenly she was speaking English and Hindi? I don't think I believe this little drip feed, if it were true it would have been included in the OP as it is very, very pertinent,

One racist comment does not a racist make, but on balance the school jas very good reasons to believe this comment comes from your son negatively exploiting the difference between him and a girl of Indian heritage, which is racist. The comment was perjorative - she was speaking english, he told her to stop talking an indian language, hopinh that shaming her about her imdian background would shut her up. I don't see how you can deny this comment is racist, even if your son is not.

The school record will not have serious ramifications for him unless he continues to make racist comments. He sounds like a generally sensitive, sensible and well intentioned boy so I doubt he will - he will learn from this and grow up to not make casual racist slurs which are casual for the perpetrator but can be deeply damaging to the victim.

The council record won't be connected to his name. If a school reported a high number of casual racist incidents the council can do something about it. It's better than the victims having to put up with casual racism throughout their entire school career.

You don't really have grounds to complain, I do not see what you want the school to do differently.

KateeGee · 26/11/2014 09:38

Oops sorry for typos.

When I was at school, and I am deeply ashamed to admit this, I used a couple of disabalist words. Probably around the ages of 6-10. I meant no ill to disabled people, and I genuinely did not know that the words I was using were offensive, they were just things that I had heard thrown around as insults so I copied them. I am deeply ashamed and more than embarrassed, over two decades later, but if I didn't feel ashamed I would not realise the severity of what I had said and would probably carry on doing it.

If your son was just told the comment was mean, he would throw out another racist comment next time someone got on his tits. And the next, and the next, and he would grow up thinking it's ok. Then if he said it as an adult, maybe at work, he would be in much worse trouble than he would if he had a short, sharp lesson about how to not make racist comments at 11.

Niceteeth · 26/11/2014 10:06

Wow, I really can't believe this thread. I have had a sneaking suspicion for a while that MN can be quite racist, but now it really has been confirmed. As a black person, hearing the comments by posters like claig, and chimes especially make me really despair for my son's future. Growing up in a country where people are clearly annoyed at losing the right to be racist. I think I'll go back to my policy of never reading a thread about race, as it is always too upsetting. And I'm sure I'm not the only person of colour on here to do that.

claig · 26/11/2014 10:12

What comments, Niceteeth?

This is a post from stillhurtingbyit who is Indian and does not think what the boy said was racist

"stillhurtingbyit Tue 25-Nov-14 18:14:59

I am an Indian, born and brought up in India, studied in the US & UK, and now back in India. I just want to say that I find NOTHING racist in what the OP's child said (even though he obviously was impatient and rude to his pal)."

KateeGee · 26/11/2014 10:21

There are plenty of posters, some Indian, others not, who have said they do find it racist. You have cherry picked the one who fits your somewhat bizarre agenda. When it comes to offensive remarks, it is down to the perception by the person the remark was aimed at, the fact that a random poster on MN says it is not racist is neither here nor there.

claig · 26/11/2014 10:24

And lots of posters don't think it is racist.

'it is down to the perception by the person the remark was aimed at'

I know it is down to perception which is why I liked to the Surrey council document and the CPS document and mentioned the Macpherson Report etc, and that is why I said that I don't think the OP can challenge it in any way because the school has to act on the perception.

RonaldMcDonald · 26/11/2014 10:26

sounds racist to me yabu

KateeGee · 26/11/2014 10:28

Right, so the school's course of action is correct, it was a racist comment and they acted accordingly. The kid has learned a lesson, all done.

If the other kids are now isolating the OP's son for being a racist then that is something the school needs to manage, but they can't brush racist comments under the carpet just in case the perpertrator is made to feel bad. I don't understand what you think can be done differently? These procedures are in place to nip casual racism in the bud. It is quite right that schools have them in place.

Icimoi · 26/11/2014 10:28

People aren't vilifying a child, Chimes. They have correctly answered the OP's question as to whether what he said was racist, but in general have accepted that children make mistakes - in fact, if anything the general run of comments is that the child is showing more sense about this than OP.

TheFairyCaravan · 26/11/2014 10:29

You seem to "have just found" a lot out throughout this thread, OP. Maybe it would have been better to have sat down and had a sensible, lengthy conversation with your DS rather than having it in dribs and drabs.

I'm not sure I believe all the drip feeding either.

cheesecakemom · 26/11/2014 10:47

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Niceteeth · 26/11/2014 11:07

To be honest, a lot of it is just the general clulessness about the fact that yes, casual racism does exist, and the right to 'not be branded a racist' does not trump someone else's right not to put up with racist remarks. Instead of learning from, and moving on after this incident, the OP is tying herself up in knots to say that her son (who I'm sure is a lovely boy) has not said anything racist. Even to the point of accusing the girls parents of 'taking it too far' . Its so depressing. Chimes' comments about how 'nobody can say anything' are just so predictable.

ChimesAndCarols · 26/11/2014 11:10

Chimes' comments about how 'nobody can say anything' are just so predictable.

And true.

Floggingmolly · 26/11/2014 11:14

It is a horribly racist comment. The fact that he's learning Mandarin (!) does not detract from that one iota.

Floggingmolly · 26/11/2014 11:17

Ah. I've just caught up on the drip feeding... "The girl was speaking both languages". That would have put an entirely different spin on things; had it actually happened, so I'd conclude that given you didn't mention it, it didn't Hmm

ExitPursuedByABear · 26/11/2014 11:21

I despair on so many fronts.

Icimoi · 26/11/2014 11:30

The thing is, Chimes, we all go about our daily lives discovering that we can indeed "say anything", so your comment is obviously not true. Anything, that is, other than slanderous comments and those that demonstrate prejudice based on protected characteristics under the Equality Act. But then, most of us don't actually want to do that, so we find that we have ample freedom of speech. In my experience, people who whinge about freedom of speech and how "we can't say anything nowadays" are generally complaining that they aren't free to say offensive things based on people's race, gender, disabilities, religion and sexual orientation.

ChimesAndCarols · 26/11/2014 11:32

I despair on so many fronts.

WellThatsLife · 26/11/2014 11:49

My dd has asd. A few months ago she made a comment about someone having a spaz fit. I pulled her up immediately and discovered she was referring to an epileptic fit. I explained to her about the word spaz and she was mortified, she had heard others at school using it and had no idea what it meant. If she had been heard by the child or a teacher she would have probably got into trouble even though she didn't know what she was saying

LurcioAgain · 26/11/2014 11:52

So do we, chimes, so do we... but for very different reasons from you, I suspect.

ChimesAndCarols · 26/11/2014 11:57

Smile for Lurcio

Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a world (even though MN is trying to flatten everything out and make everybody the same, think the same, do the same, be gender neutral, etc.).

aermingers · 26/11/2014 12:04

I think there are much better ways to deal with this. The logic and reasoning behind what is and isn't racist this days is complex and sometimes it's quite hard for even an adult to understand. Children are sometimes in innocence going to make misjudgements but I think labelling someone a racist for one misjudged comment goes a bit far. It's just stigmatising a child for views they don't necessarily have.

I do find this sort of attitude quite scary, we're getting into the realms of people being denounced by others on the basis of 'thought crimes' on the scattiest of evidence they actually have the thoughts they're accused of.

ChimesAndCarols · 26/11/2014 12:12

Be careful aermingers or they might turn their attention away from me and start on you. You are NOT allowed to say what you said, dontcha know? At least, not on MN.

YouAreBoring · 26/11/2014 12:12

Why do people think the OP is drip feeding ? this is an ongoing situation and she is trying to find out what happened. The incident happened 2 weeks ago and she is hearing about it second hand from her 11 year old and the school. It is not the least bit suprising that the facts are a bit hazy.