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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

589 replies

HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 17:13

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

OP posts:
TheFairyCaravan · 25/11/2014 22:11

The Daily Mail is one of the most racist papers in the country, if not the most!

It doesn't matter if you move schools or not OP, he made a racist comment and fwiw, had he have made it at my children's old school they would have excluded him for a few days, so you could be jumping from frying pan into fire.

Enoughnow1 · 25/11/2014 22:15

Quite dawndonna.

OP, many people manage to stay in this country without making racist remarks and don't feel the need to emigrate. You and those who have pmd you are entitled to your view, but in my opinion it is people like you who make day to day life difficult for the minorities in this country. I don't know if you have ever received racist abuse or comments but it's isolating and depressing. You haven't shown once ounce of empathy towards the girl here, which is quite telling.

Crusoe · 25/11/2014 22:25

School should be educating about why the remark was offensive not punishing. I think what your son said was wholly inappropriate but the school have taken an unnecessarily hard line for an 11 year old CHILD who from what you say has no history of making this kind of racist remark.
Hope the girl isn't too upset but that your son isn't either.

Mmymimi · 25/11/2014 22:28

None of them have ever stopped to consider how invalidated, inferior, humiliated the Indian girl felt at your son's racism, instead they PM you and advice you use all the power, privillege and money you have to erase your son's racist statements.

Why is it about how your son feels, when he was the one who used racist statements? Why is your son entitled to have no record of his horrific statements and the Indian girl has to carry this for life?
Why is racism seen as a light playground joke on Mumsnet? Why is the true impact of racism trivialised on Mumsnet? Why is that it's the white majority that wants to dictate how minorities should feel about racism? Why do most white people justify racism? Why does Mumsnet create a huge and powerful platform for us white faceless people to redicule minorities' experiences?

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:30

Actually enough DH and I had a conversation earlier this evening about how this must have felt for the girl and her family. I just didn't post about it. Someone upthread made an interesting point about her parents taking offence over my DS getting her actual enthicity/beliefs wrong and I thought that was a really interesting point and very valid. I just don't expect that an 11 year old boy would understand the ramifications about that or even know of all the different types to that detail etc. He didn't think too hard about what he said. It was an off the cuff comment that was not borne out of any desire to be racist.

I spoke with DS at length at bedtime as he was upset (which I agree is much better than him not feeling upset). We talked about why schools have to be so tough on racism and record incidents so that they can see trends and compare schools/areas getting it right with those who aren't. I told him about IS and how the world is since 911 etc.

We are not sitting her telling him "it's okay son, we've got your back, don't worry, you've done nothing wrong". We're trying to deal with it in a fair way that doesn't let him off the hook but that doesn't label his comment as racist.

OP posts:
Crusoe · 25/11/2014 22:32

Not justifying racism at all but the op's son made a mistake - a bad one but a mistake. It can feel terrible to have made a mistake, know it, regret it but be unable to undo it.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:33

Why should she feel invalidated, inferior or humiliated though?

In no way was he indicating his superiority or power over this student.

OP posts:
LittleBairn · 25/11/2014 22:34

Have you challenged the school about this girls behaviour and why the incident occurred?

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:35

What makes it a horrific statement though? Just consider the words and the intent. This has been blown out of all proportion.

OP posts:
ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 22:36

None of them have ever stopped to consider how invalidated, inferior, humiliated the Indian girl felt

If the British/Indian girl felt the above, then she won't last long in this cut throat world if a little remark about her gabbling too fast in Hindi does this to her. Talk about going over the top!

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 25/11/2014 22:37

Yes, who could expect an eleven year old to understand that not all brown people who are speaking English are not speaking Hindu? The nuances and complexities are simply insurmountable!

What I would say is that I wish certain posters would stop talking flipping racism.

TheFallenMadonna · 25/11/2014 22:37

But... If you are having a conversation about his choice of words, and about how important it is that schools record racist incidents, while saying this wasn't one, that's a somewhat mixed message.

You stress his cultural awareness, but he doesn't seem very culturally aware from your later posts.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:37

No little although a friend has asked me if he is being bullied and that's something we need to ascertain. Certainly since then half the class are being very unkind and he has taken his punishment on the chin. It's not fair of the girl to go around telling people and stirring it all up again.

OP posts:
TheOriginalSteamingNit · 25/11/2014 22:39

chimes she was speaking English! not 'gabbling' Hindi. And if she was, why should she be ordered to stop it anyway!

How is a white boy going to get in in the world if he can't cope with a few little remarks in English, hmm?

Stop talking flipping racist, will you?

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:39

Oh come on ffs, he is culturally aware for an 11 year old. He has celebrated deepavali and hari raya and other such occasions but he could not name all of the different religions and belief systems of the region.

OP posts:
Enoughnow1 · 25/11/2014 22:40

Yes he did, he pointed out that she was foreign when she was actually speaking English. How was that relevant? You really don't get it OP do you? And I don't think you ever will.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 25/11/2014 22:40

Oh, should she have to remain silent about it in case people are unkind to him?

Snaveanator · 25/11/2014 22:41

It's degrading.

I'm mixed Arab/Mediterranean and all throughout school, the other children used to call me a 'p@ki', just assuming that because I am dark that it's ok to call me that. Aside from the fact that the term in itself is degrading, I wasn't even Pakistani.... I'm spanish and Palestinian. It actually made me so self conscious about the colour of my skin that I used to avoid any sun on my face, and if I did get any, I would vigorous scrub it off until my skin was red raw. Especially after 9/11 it made me deeply ashamed of my heritage, I daren't admit to anyone what I actually was as I knew that due to their ignorance I'd probably just be called a terrorist.

You may think that the school are over reacting over a flippant remark made by your son, but I highly doubt he is the only one to ever degrade that girl like that, imagine how she feels.

It's awful being ashamed of the skin you're in and not being able to hide it.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:42

It's not a mixed message. He is confused. DH has told him he doesn't believe it was a racist comment. DS is scared about the council being told. He has no idea what that means. So I was trying to explain why it is important that the council knows WHEN a racist comment is made.

OP posts:
ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 22:42

TheOriginal - I didn't say she was speaking Hindi - I know she was speaking English. But OP said she was mucking about and speaking silly so no-one could understand her.

How is a white boy going to get in in the world if he can't cope with a few little remarks in English, hmm?

Do what ^^? Stop being thick will you Smile

Enoughnow1 · 25/11/2014 22:43

'Gabbling Hindi'. Disgusting. And very worrying.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 22:44

For the last time he didn't call her a name and those comparing what he said to name calling are being ridiculous.

OP posts:
Tron123 · 25/11/2014 22:45

school would exclude for a few days? Cannot see how this is justified, and very surprised, though where exclusion occur am doubtful unless own child anyone could know the full reasons or justification for this

TheFallenMadonna · 25/11/2014 22:45

Can I ask, how was it wrong, if not because it was racist?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 25/11/2014 22:45

If the British/Indian girl felt the above, then she won't last long in this cut throat world if a little remark about her gabbling too fast in Hindi does this to her. Talk about going over the top!

You said she was gabbling in Hindi. Or in your head is that the same as 'mucking about and speaking silly?' You said she should be able to get over that. So why is it 'thick' (oh the irony!) to suggest she will have to get past that, but he won't have to get past people talking fast?

Stop talking flipping racist.