To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

I'm almost nearly sure you're not Claig.

Though you do give a pretty good impression of it.

'Agree purpleoxy in fact think that such an approach by the school leads to children choosing to segregate for fear of getting into trouble'

Agree, it creates more division

Enough - I once watched a "debate" on MN about how it really wasn't offensive to call someone "Chinky" with an open mouth. I didn't actually post for fear I might set fire to the keyboard.

One thing which stuck in my mind was that I thought "When was the last time anyone called you or your child Chinky you smug twat - how can you possibly know how it feels"

I think of it everytime I see a fellow plain vanilla insist that what they said wasn't racist. How the hell do you get to decide that?!

Does my head in, it does.

What's really funny Enough is that they will now be mightily offended that you called them that!

But to have the discussion about how best to handle casual racism in schools means you have to accept it exists and recognise it when it happens Claig

Forgive me if I wouldn't trust some posters here to be able to do that. Sad that we have to insist schools record it otherwise it would still be what it was like when I was young.

"Though you do give a pretty good impression of it."

This is what I fear may happen to parents who object to signing these acknowledegement letters and object to reporting their children for racist incidents which they think are not racist, that they will get tarred with the racist brush too for objecting, and maybe be added to some report.

But from what ravenAK said, maybe it is all just stuck in some file somewhere and forgotten about and rarely accessed.

And if people stopped using race and colour and religion to make out of line comments to others then there wouldn't be a "race card" to play.

Isn't that the better way to solve the problem rather than trying to insist the victims are making too much of a fuss or that in our opinions it wasn't racist so pipe down.?

'But to have the discussion about how best to handle casual racism in schools means you have to accept it exists and recognise it when it happens'

Of course it exists, but some comments are not casual racism and may wrongly be classed as that. That needs to be accepted to in order to work out a fair and proportionate system of dealing with racism that doesn't brand clumsy, awkward, inadvertent remarks as being racist in intent.

No claig the impression you give is because you seem very concerned with the rights and processes of the perpetrator and no care at all of the position of the victim

Sounds like the two children were friends messing about annoying one another. It does sound like an overreaction on all sides. I am sure they will avoid each other from now on.

I can see how issues like this can bring racial divide into schools.

So long as it's an isolated incident, claig, this is pretty much the case. A genuine childish mistake coming out of ignorance & thoughtlessness.

For what it's worth, we see far more racist attitudes, including the minimising of racial abuse, among parents than among students. Kids are usually very able to perceive that comments such as that OP's ds made are totally unacceptable.

Fair play to the lad for accepting this & being suitably ashamed of it; he's obviously learned a lesson.

When you are on the receiving end of racist comments repeatedly you get pretty good at spotting them. White people who have barely ever heard one directed at them... not so good. And I include myself in a former life with that group.

It is irritating to be patted on the head and told that the comments you find racist racist, really aren;t so run off an play nicely like a dear.

Like its irritating when you get men who insist that they not being sexist... why they are just so acclimatised to the staus quo that they would spot a sexist comment unless it stood up an labelled itself with a "Get your tits out for the lads" badge

that they wouldn't spot a sexist comment unless it stood up an labelled itself with a "Get your tits out for the lads" badge.

My typing is deteriorating and I'm wasting my breath so time to bow out I think.

"Your DS is not a racist. He is a child who is still learning the rules and said something without thinking. Writing a letter and an apology will teach him a lesson. Marking him for life would be totally over the top."

YY to the above comment. We have all done stupid things while growing up. It's a learning process.

The council keeps a book of racist comments? Sounds like a great read Wouldn't want to be the person tasked with painstakingly transcribing each and every racist statement that comes in.

From the background you give it sounds unlikely that he meant to offend, and I wonder if this is the sort of thing he might have said and heard from friends when you lived abroad (I imagine in some circles this would be friendly banter). BUT, he is in the wrong as it came across as racist to his classmate and he should have known better if he's been here awhile to not speak like that.

Nevertheless I think the school's reaction is completely OTT. He should be gently taught not to speak like this, not be told his record is marked permanently.

"No claig the impression you give is because you seem very concerned with the rights and processes of the perpetrator and no care at all of the position of the victim"

I do always tend to side with the individual over the state, that is why I am conservative by nature as opposed to being Labour. But I am against racism and homophobia and anything that hurts the feelings of individuals. But I think that some PC political parties in their wish to protect people have gone too far and that it will eventually backfire and cause worse racism because they unjustly accuse people of being racist when they are not.

"One teacher told researchers that anti-racist interventions had led to 'an absolutely awful atmosphere around the school'.

'Children who used to play beautifully together are starting to separate along racial lines,' the teacher said."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223738/Nursery-children-branded-racist-schools-report-40-000-playground-race-spats-year.html

At the end of the day it is about justice and everybody must be treated equally and I think that "perception" can sometimes be wrong and someone may have misread a statement and accused someone of being racist when they weren't.

He actually said it because her name is an Indian name. It had nothing to do with her skin. How was he to really know whether she is Pakistani or Hindu etc? He's an 11 year old boy. He made a mistake. He has had detention. He has written a letter.

She is telling the class. People are telling him they don't like him. He is feeling miserable. But hey that's okay.

People via PM have suggested moving school, and seeking legal advice. It actually just makes me want to move country, to a more sane one.

Back off OP, good god. Quite obviously nobody involved here is racist.

First of all, OP and the son happen to know some people of other races. As everybody knows, having friends of other races renders one physically incapable of behaving in a racist manner. I knew a bloke called Jeff who used to tell people to stop "speaking paki" but then he met a Chinese bloke down the pub and now he's excused of anything! Same principle, people. Be fair.

Not to mention, OP has already explained that he only insulted her making reference to her heritage and language BECAUSE HE COULDN'T UNDERSTAND HER. There was a reason. Just like if I turned to my colleague and said "god, it's so fucking dark in here I can't even see the blackies!" then it's absolutely fine because it was just describing my inability to see them. Insinuating that an English speaking English girl can't speak English properly because of her heritage is just the same as saying "it's all Greek to me". Besides, it's not like there is mass discrimination against how Indian people speak, like jokes about Indian call centres or misinformed references to "paki languages" or anything like that - OBVIOUSLY anybody taking anything offensively is just looking to be offended.

And not to forget, ever: racism is an eternal, permanent, obvious state of being. You're either a nazi openly hateful racist scum, or you have never acted racist in your life and you're an innocent white person and why is everyone acting so politically correct oh my GOD. It's absolutely not possible to be a reasonably decent, friendly person who fucked up and did indeed say something racist once in a while.

And it's certainly not possible to accept that you hurt someone, apologise, accept the obvious fact that it was racist and resolve to do better. It's not possible to try to forget about your own fucking self for a second and acknowledge that you've made a mistake.

Oh no, that just wouldn't be on. Deny until the cows come home and continue pleading innocence in the face of all logic - you could never be racist. And maybe, if you say it enough times, it will become true.

You can't go around quoting the daily mail! Its articles are designed to make people paranoid and hate everybody else! It's probably about as true as a story about Santas coming from Europe and swamping the South Coast.

so, loopyarabella, while you and the other white children are learning the 'rules' the non white children are getting hurt and that's of no consequence to you is it? other people shouldn't be used as your learning experience.

claig, you stand up for the individual against the state do you? do you ever stand up for the minorities against the white monolith? I doubt it.

There is no point moving school, it is probably the same everywhere, That is political correctness for you. All you can do is vote for a better country and vote against parties that have created this.

One day there will be legal challenges when it affects some millioanaire or billionaire somewhere, but most ordinary people just have accept that that is how they have made it.

HaHaLol, tell me which more sane country you want to move to?

I also think it was a racist comment.

Creighton white children do also have racist comments directed at them. I appreciate it may not be as common in this country but don't assume it's not happening here too. It is not just non white children getting hurt.

'do you ever stand up for the minorities against the white monolith?'

Absolutely. I am against injustice.