To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

'the incident is usually recorded without names'

I have said that for the council report, but what about his personal file, is it recorded on that?

The Labour advice on reporting to councils is just the thin end of the wedge, fortunately the Coalition made it non-obligatory, but it may well come back one day and even be extended into personal files etc

'Nope. Not unless OP wants to throw a fortune at a case which, even if it were proved to the hilt, would result in damages which would struggle to reach three figures.'

I am sure that some millionaire parents would challenge it and then it would get frontpage in the Daily Mail and the local authority would be embarrassed by it and may not have followed the correct procedure if there even is one for investigation as opposed to just letter writing and reporting.

can the 'enemies of PC' on this thread tell me at what age a white child should be held responsible for the things he or she says and do they expect children of different backgrounds to accept the casual racism offered to them without complaint until the white child reaches the 'age of responsibility'?

OBVIOUSLY making a racist comment to another student is recorded on a student's personal file.

A member of my tutor group received a referral the other day for flicking baked beans across the dining room into someone's face.

That'll also be in her file for 5 years...

However, 'file' in this context means 'an Excel spreadsheet somewhere in the bowels of the school server which can be accessed, updated & ultimately used to support exclusion if she subsequently goes on to punching people who irritate her'.

It's not some great brassbound ledger which she'll be required to lug to job interviews when she's 30. & if she refrains from doing anything else silly or nasty, no-one will ever bother to look at it again.

"DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council."

It is the reporting and signing of acknowledegement letters that is why DH objects, not punishment such as an apology and letter to the parents and the girl that the boy has already done, or a detention etc.

I have not started another thread, no. I haven't even had time to read any other threads lol.

He was remarking on her language

only he wasn't, because, as he knew, she's British. So her language is English. Which is what she was speaking.

It is racist though. He could have said "stop speaking so flippin fast" but he made reference to the other child's race.

OP - I agree with your husband, and I'd take it all the way. Your son is an 11 year old child who made a mistake, for which he apologised. In actual fact, I'd think about moving him to a school with a healthier leadership team.

A growing army of diversity 'missionaries' may be fuelling tensions instead of easing them, warned the report from the Manifesto Club civil liberties group.

These race advisers and bureaucrats are said to be increasing the divide between white and black youngsters by forcing them to see the world through the filter of race.

The report said a child had been severely disciplined for calling two other children a 'chocolate bar'. Another child had been punished for calling a boy 'white trash'.

Report author Adrian Hart said: 'The obligation on schools to report these incidents wastes teachers' time, interferes in children's space in the playground, and undermines teachers' ability to deal with problems in their classrooms.

'Worse, such anti-racist policies can create divisions where none had existed, by turning everyday playground spats into "race issues".

'There are a small number of cases of sustained targeted bullying, and schools certainly need to deal with those.

'But most of these 'racist incidents' are just kids falling out. They don't need re-educating out of their prejudice - they and their teachers need to be left alone.'

Under rules introduced in 2002, schools must monitor and report all racist incidents to their local authority.

Teachers are required to fill in special referral forms detailing the incident and punishment.

According to the report The Myth of Racist Kids, around 280,000 incidents have been reported in England since full records began.

Many involve pupils still at primary school, it said.

Out of 5,000 incidents in Yorkshire in 2006/07, for example, the majority were in primary schools.

Meanwhile Essex County Council figures show that most of the children involved in reported racist incidents were between nine and 11.

One teacher told researchers that anti-racist interventions had led to 'an absolutely awful atmosphere around the school'.

'Children who used to play beautifully together are starting to separate along racial lines,' the teacher said."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223738/Nursery-children-branded-racist-schools-report-40-000-playground-race-spats-year.html

This will backfire and cause more problems in the future because it is unjust.

The recording of racist incidents in school is more about the experience of those at the receiving end than those dishing it out, however inadvertently. The log is a measure of the climate of the school. It might be that your son's comments were just one of a whole catalogue of similar incidents that this girl has to put up with. Or it might be a rare occurrence. The school knows, if it records. Children, and their parents sometimes, are not great at seeing the big picture. "I was just..." Is something I hear a lot. And on it's own, we might be looking at something small and, to the student, insignificant. But small events add up.

It's not all about your son. It's about the girl he said it to really.

DS will say "stop flipping speaking French". So yes, he would say it to a white person

Nice try OP but you clearly said early in the thread that:

he was trying to shut her up

It wasn't that he couldn't understand what she was saying

really you do yourself a dis-service by trying to now imply that he was simply trying to get her to stop talking her language.

IMO it was a racist comment. You have no idea how the constant drip drip drip of little snidey comments about accent, colour, eyes, food choices affect people. And you have no idea how much she and/or her parents have put up with over the years. Some people (myself included) decide to take a zero tolerance approach when it comes to our children and some let it slide a bit because they can't bear the bollocks from some people who have never been on the receiving end of racist remarks to their 2 year old who set themselves up as the arbiters of what is an isn't racist.

Frankly I am cheered that your son feels ashamed. It shows a degree of empathy that is commendable. More in fact than it sounds like you and your DH have put together.

Don't sign whatever you don't want to sign but really don't get hysterical about being labelled as racist. Its really not likely to be a problem.

Unless of course you are racist.

& if OP chooses not to sign the form, it'll just be stuffed into the filing cabinet unsigned. As will any letters she or dh send challenging how the school has dealt with the incident.

Again, if the incident were to be repeated (& I'm sure it won't be!), that indicates that parents were made aware of an earlier racist incident involving their ds, but did not acknowledge this as such.

I reckon about 97% of incident-related guff on secondary school pupils is never touched again until it's shredded to make room for a new influx. For the small minority of students whose behaviour is a serious ongoing concern, it's vital evidence to help them access support, or, in the last resort, to remove them from a situation where their behaviour is harmful to others.

So from the last post op's son is unimportant?

FWIW I am as white as plain vanilla ice cream. Becoming part of a multi-race family has been an absolute eye opener for me.

I think this is quite sad. Your ds made a misjudged comment, he was talking lightheartedly to the girl and did not intend to cause racial offence. He's 11yo and it would have been better if someone had explained to him why his comment was not acceptable. Instead I bet he is terrified to say anything to this girl ever again which is bad for him and for her! Everybody loses this way. I actually think this incident will encourage him to talk to people of his own race in preference to any other race in case he lands up in hot water for saying something meant in a friendly way. Far from tackling racism, this encourages it.

So from the last post op's son is unimportant?

When deciding whether the comment was racist or not, yes.

Deciding the severity of the incidence, no. His intentions are taken into account.

So me saying "you a big stinking black bastard" and claiming I didn't mean any offence doesn;t take away the racist element - it is a racist remark. ME explaining that I grew up in Harlem and that we all called each other that would mean that it might be considered a lower severity issue (if true).

Far from tackling racism, this encourages it.

This might well be true and would be worthy of discussion. But apparently its not racist at all (according to OP, her DH and a depressing number of posters) so we don't get to have that debate

You can;t really tackle casual racism if you don;t accept it exists.

I have commented on this thread in my usual name but have name changed temporarily.

I am British Asian and find the comment incredibly racist and inoffensive. I would hate it if anyone said that to me or my children. I would accept it as a one off comment, but seeing the chain of comments, now can only conclude, in my view, that OP, Chimes, Claig and some others are racists. Yes racists whether you like it or not. You think you are not but you are.

I am not playing the race card. The girl and her parents are not playing the race card. OPs son made a comment which singled out the girl for being Indian. He made a racist comment, and OP and OPs DH are in my view being racist by supporting him in this way.

Mn is more racist than I thought. Very depressing.

if you are referring to my post Tron, then you have misread.

Agree purpleoxy in fact think that such an approach by the school leads to children choosing to segregate for fear of getting into trouble

Enoughnow - it is very depressing isn't it.

The sad thing is that the OP's son does really seem to have grasped the issue better than the adults here and seems genuinely sorry. The adults however seem more concerned with coming out of this with their reputation intact.

Enoughnow1, I'm not a racist and nor is the OP or Chimes.

I agree kew. OPs son at least seems to have learned something.