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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

589 replies

HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 17:13

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:25

DS is telling the whole truth as he remembers it. Yes, I would go one step further and say that we fully expect the school to still have to uphold their decisions. But we are defending our son because we believe this is an inappropriate way to deal with this situation. We would like that to be on record. We are not defending his mean behaviour. And he knows we are cross with him. It's his bedtime now and he's just come and told me how sorry he is to cause all this trouble and that he is so ashamed of himself. He knows what he has done is wrong.

But we are not going to label him, or his comment, as racist based on what we have found via various definitions of the word. He knows he is in trouble but we are standing by him on the racism categorisation. We know him best after all.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:25

Claig, you've been told repeatedly that reports to the council about racist incidents are anonymised. Why do you keep going on about it if, as you say, you don't mind, and why do you keep saying that it was Labour that introduced it and that it is somehow a good thing that the Coalition has got rid of this requirement?

And why shouldn't what 5 year olds say be part of the statistics? Is it any less hurtful to the victim because a 5 year old says it than if a 6 year old does?

bonhomme · 25/11/2014 20:26

OMG, having taken a second or two to read through some posts, I can't believe the overreactions on this thread ... the world really has gone mad. I will leave you all to it I think

claig · 25/11/2014 20:26

'calling a child by a racist name once is very hurtful to that child. Should it really not be recorded at all? And how are you going to know reliably that racist name calling is repeated and persistent unless you keep records?'

No, the child should be spoken to and punished, but there is no need to report it in my opinion, and I think the best course is to rely on teachers' discretion and knowledge of teh child and whether it has occurred before, which I presume is how these incidents were dealt with before Labour gave this reporting to the council advice.

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:27

Wow, Chimes, has it never occurred to you that racism might be dealt with by education? And that if a council knows that there is a particular problem with racism in one school, it might want to take steps to find out why the school isn't dealing with it more effectively and to help it to do so?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 25/11/2014 20:27

It's not the definition of the word that makes it a racist comment.

You know what, I can't be bothered. You're not listening.

DoraGora · 25/11/2014 20:27

Well, go on then. You might be lucky and the school might thank you for pointing out how incompetent it is.

TheFairyCaravan · 25/11/2014 20:29

I agree YesIDid it doesn't matter how it made the girl feel because it didn't quite fit the definition! Hmm

ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 20:29

Yes Icimoi - it has occurred to me. It seems we've been 'educating' children for donkeys years. See you in 200 years to see if it's worked.

p.s. if it hasn't worked in 40 years, we're back to 'flooging' etc. aren't we, because it WILL be enforced no matter what.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:29

'why do you keep saying that it was Labour that introduced it and that it is somehow a good thing that the Coalition has got rid of this requirement?'

Because i believe that it is the thin edge of a Labour Party wedge and if teh COalition had not changed it to not being an obligation, then it would likely have gone further.

Now, I would ask the headmaster if this incident will go on the pupil's file in any way whatsoever and I would try and oppose that, even though I don't know what can of worms that might kick up.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:30

Thank goodness for that yesidid.

As yet no one has really put forward a solid argument for it being a racist comment. It seems to be based on hysteria and strong emotions. But how can you qualify a comment on that when the consequences could be so serious?!

OP posts:
Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:30

Claig, you are confusing two different things - the need to keep information about racist incidents on an individual child's record, and the need to report anonymised statistics to the council.

The plain fact is, as I noted upthread, that schools have to keep all sorts of records on children's files for all sorts of reasons, mostly to do with the welfare and good education of those children. If you start saying that certain incidents should be kept out of those records, you create chaos and it's potentially the start of a very slippery slope.

ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 20:31

potentially the start of a very slippery slope.

We're already on it - can't you see that?

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:32

Of course it matters how the girl felt, in the same way as if a child called another child fat or stupid or ugly or whatever. Had he said "stop speaking that foreign language". And he knows he is wrong. But that does not make it racist.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:34

Well, yes, Chimes, educating children about the evils of racism is working in the UK - obviously not fully yet, but the picture is much, much healthier than it was say 60 years ago. Remember the days when it was acceptable for people letting property to have signs in their windows saying "No Ps, No N**s"? Fortunately long gone. It's an ongoing battle, not least because of some of the attitudes demonstrated on this thread minimising the significance of the problem, but education is having an effect.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:34

' If you start saying that certain incidents should be kept out of those records, you create chaos and it's potentially the start of a very slippery slope.'

On the contrary, I think that excessive keeping of records is the start of a slippery slope, one where parents have to sign documents acknowledging that children made racist statements when they feel they didn't

She said: '‘I was told I would have to sign a form acknowledging my son had made a racist remark which would be submitted to the local education authority for further investigation.

‘I refused to sign it and I told the teacher in no way did I agree the comment was racist. My son is inquisitive. He always likes to ask questions, but that doesn’t make him a racist.’

I feel this is a school ticking boxes to conform with guidance and harming the child's and parent's interest by doing so.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:36

"But that does not make it racist."

HaHaLOL, they say it is all about "perception", so I don't think you can argue against it. They won't listen to any other side, they can't, they just follow the rules.

cheesecakemom · 25/11/2014 20:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:37

What slippery slope would that be, Chimes? I suspect not the one I was referring to.

ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 20:37

Why is it "what is perceived" rather than "what is intended"?

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:38

OP, you keep saying what your son said wasn't racist. Would he have said it to a white girl? If not, it was racist.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:38

'We're already on it - can't you see that?'

ChimesandCarols, you are abolutely right.

Fortunately the Coalition stemmed the tide very slightly by not making it an obligation, but it still goes on and is likely to spread at least for a while until the whole PC thing is turned around one day.

Tron123 · 25/11/2014 20:39

I think op you are doing exactly the right thing, you rightly do not want your son being labelled.

SmashleyHop · 25/11/2014 20:40

Nobody is labelling the OP's son a racist. They are recording a racist comment.

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:40

Chimes, if someone called you by a vicious racist name, would you feel any less hurt by it if they popped up and said they didn't intend to be racist? Particularly if you belong to a race in respect of which there is a long history of racist persecution?