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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

589 replies

HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 17:13

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

OP posts:
claig · 25/11/2014 20:09

'They have heard one side of the story. They have not actually talked to DS'

It seems that is the only side they need, because it is about perception.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 25/11/2014 20:09

TheFairyCaravan, I agree wholeheartedly. But the OP seems to believe the parents are just complaining to cause trouble. I'm sure they would really love not to be doing this, dealing with racist comments not one full term into secondary school.

OP, stop excusing it! What message are You sending to your DS?

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:10

Claig, do you really see no benefit in recording racist incidents? If your child was the victim of racist name-calling and was deeply upset by it, would you feel it was fine if the perpetrator popped up and said "I didn't mean any harm"?

Dawndonnaagain · 25/11/2014 20:10

Claig
Nobody believes the Mail is a reliable source.

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:12

OP's DS apparently admits fully to what he said. What he said was racist, on any interpretation - it isn't just a matter of the victim's perception.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:12

Fairy it's not a case of backing down. Even if he said what he thinks he said (one week on, how many ppl can remember the exact words they said to someone?) DH is still adamant it is not a racist comment. But DH is not writing an angry letter. He is writing a questioning letter and asking about what goes on the record etc. DH does not usually kick up a fuss about things. But he clearly feels very strongly about this.

Re DS he knows he has done something very wrong and stupid. He is not off the hook by a long way. But equally we are not going to tell him he's a racist if we don't believe it to be true.

OP posts:
cheesecakemom · 25/11/2014 20:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

SmashleyHop · 25/11/2014 20:13

Op- Maybe this mother has had to deal with several comments and is trying to protect her daughter. You see it as blown out of proportion, she sees it has defending and supporting her daughter. As I stated before- this happens a lot in schools now and I think it comes with kids picking out the biggest difference in someone and using it against them. For my son it's his accent, for obese kids it's their weight, for my redheaded daughter it's ginger jokes.

The cut and dry of it is that your son said something out of anger- He chose a phrase specific to this girls looks. He could have easily said "Shut up! I don't want to hear you anymore." he didn't. He used a term that hurt her and in my opinion could be viewed as racist. He doesn't need to be raked over the coals- the detention, apology and instruction on why it's inappropriate is enough.

I think you are focusing too much on the fact this mother works at the school. It's not a conspiracy against you and your family.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:13

However, OP, the Coalition removed teh obligation to report to the council, so different schools can now use their own judgement, so it is possible that thie headmaster could not report. However, now that the other parents have complained, I doubt the headmaster will not report.

If it is all anonymous, then it is not too bad, but if it goes on his record then it is worth trying to dispute it, but God knows if they can do anything to stop it.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 25/11/2014 20:14

Claig, enough already with the fucking Mail links, I implore you.

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:14

Can you qualify that Iciomoi? Because what a lot of ppl are saying is that it is perception. Joe Bloggs who overheard it and had nothing to do with any of the ppl involved or may not understand the context (say if it was said between friends as a joke) could report it apparently.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:16

Claig, the point of reporting racist incidents to the council is so that they can monitor whether there is, for instance, a rise or fall in such incidents, or if they are happening disproportionately in one area as opposed to others and take steps to address it if so. Do you think there is anything wrong with that, and if so why?

cheesecakemom · 25/11/2014 20:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 20:17

and take steps to address it if so

And what steps would they be, then?

Original poster
HaHaLOL · 25/11/2014 20:18

FWIW before we received this letter we were not feeling as strongly about challenging it. But seeing this letter, being asked to sign it, having someone of authority tell DS that this will go to the council, no-one talking to us about it - it is completely OTT. That is not to say he should get away with it. As I have said, the detention, the letter (which we actually suggested before the school made him do it), we fully support.

OP posts:
Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:19

OP, if there is doubt whether something is racist, ultimately it comes down to the perception of the victim. But obviously there are some things that are clearly racist on any interpretation; and the responses you have had on this thread explain very clearly why what your son said was racist.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:19

"do you really see no benefit in recording racist incidents? If your child was the victim of racist name-calling and was deeply upset by it, would you feel it was fine if the perpetrator popped up and said "I didn't mean any harm"?"

It depends what they are and how they were said. If a child of 3 calls someone a name, then I say don't report it, just speak to the child, and in this case, I would not report it. But serious and persistent name calling I would report.

How did schools deal with this before Labour gave this advice?

TheFairyCaravan · 25/11/2014 20:20

I never mentioned "backing down"! Hmm

Why is it ok for you DH to feel strongly about this, but not OK for the girl's parents to feel strongly about it? Do you not think this might have been the incident that broke the camel's back as it were?

Are you and your DH prepared to not like what the school comes back with? Are you prepared for the fact that your DS might not be telling the whole truth?

Maki79 · 25/11/2014 20:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:21

Chimes, I do hope you aren't telling us that you have no idea what steps can be taken to address racism.

claig · 25/11/2014 20:21

'Claig, the point of reporting racist incidents to the council is so that they can monitor whether there is, for instance, a rise or fall in such incidents, or if they are happening disproportionately in one area as opposed to others and take steps to address it if so. Do you think there is anything wrong with that, and if so why?'

If it is anonymous, I don't mind. But reporting what 5 years olds say in the playground to add to council statistics I don't think is a good idea.

What I worry about is if it goes on a child's school record and remains on it.

bonhomme · 25/11/2014 20:23

Haven't read through the pages and pages of comments but ... I think the school is overreacting.

ChimesAndCarols · 25/11/2014 20:23

Chimes, I do hope you aren't telling us that you have no idea what steps can be taken to address racism.

Yes. Prison? Flogging? Solitary confinement? Please explain how?

Icimoi · 25/11/2014 20:23

claig, calling a child by a racist name once is very hurtful to that child. Should it really not be recorded at all? And how are you going to know reliably that racist name calling is repeated and persistent unless you keep records?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 25/11/2014 20:23

OP, your attitude is going to do you, or more importantly your DS, no favours at all.

I'm actually astounded that you are trying to defend him and my sympathies lie entirely with the girl and her family. And the school actually, if students didn't make offensive remarks (and then their parents excuse and defend them) , they wouldn't have to deal with all this shit.

You're now trying to say maybe he didn't even say it? Catch yourself on.