To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

We have a letter here to sign saying that we accept the significance of the comment.

More excuses. Why did you start this thread if you're so convinced? Can't you accept he was wrong, and he is in this situation due to his own actions?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually, why don't you butt out. I am trying to help the OP about records etc, and I am saying that I don't think her DH should complain because it might get worse.

She is worried about this being reported and I don't blame her, but I don't think she has many rights in all of this.

He is in the wrong, yes. He said something mean and unnecessary and he should know better. I started the thread because I wasn't sure whether I believed it was racist or not. DH was/is adamant that it isn't. So I wanted to read what other people thought. It doesn't mean I am going to agree with them.

I would imagine the girl's mother feels her job as a parent is to protect her from comments that mock her for her family's origins. Is that really "taking things too far"? It's not like she wants your son excluded is it? She just wants the same thing you want - an apology and a punishment. Aren't you actually in agreement on that?

And what YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually said. Claig, if we wanted to read the Daily Mail I'm sure we all know how to use the internet.

Silly me, Claig, there was me thinking you had an agenda when you're just trying to help the OP. I'm sure your Daily Mail links will be invaluable for their letter to the head.

claig, you're sliding away from the issues. The fact is that schools just have to keep records on children for all sorts of reasons. I notice that you are focussing on learning difficulties whilst ignoring the issue of the necessity for schools to keep records of such matters as educational progress and misbehaviour. Do you accept that it is appropriate for them to keep educational records? If those records show that a child is not attaining at the same rate as his peers indicating some sort of learning difficulty, are you suggesting that parents should have the right to demand that those records be deleted? If the child has been showing a pattern or disruptive, rude behaviour, should the school pretend none of it has happened if the parents demand it?

Not sure what action is best but just to say to the op I am appalled that the school have made an issue out if this. would be interested to home if they have same approach to all incidents - if so how do they find time to develop teaching and learning?

I think it was racist and I think yours and your DH's reaction speaks volumes.

My children have had a multi-cultural upbringing from their cousins, uncles, aunts to their friends. They have got to the grand old age of 20 and 18 without making racist comments.

If this was my son tonight I would be so ashamed. I wouldn't be wasting time writing to the HT and I wouldn't be interested in what the girl had said, I would be making sure he was under no illusion of why it is wrong and why he must never, ever do it again.

Can I ask how people think that DH asking for his views to be recorded could make it worse?

His main point is that she is Indian, she was speaking in a way that he couldn't understand. He told her to stop speaking her language which he couldn't understand. He clearly got Hindu and Hindi mixed up. But his intention was obviously the language, not the religion.

There was no racially motivated intention.

Racist or not, he shouldn't have done it . You can argue the racism point with the school, I see no problems with that.

My worry is You defending your son and him knowing you are defending him. This will lead to bad things in the future. If he was totally in the right then fine but you cannot defend his actions, well defend them behind his back by all means but he can't know you are defending him.

ElephantsAndMiasmas, just because you think the school is being reasonable, the OP obviously doesn't.

'We have a letter here to sign saying that we accept the significance of the comment.'

and other parents have been through similar and the Daily Mail is teh only paper that discusses it because it thinks it is wrong

She said: '‘I was told I would have to sign a form acknowledging my son had made a racist remark which would be submitted to the local education authority for further investigation.

‘I refused to sign it and I told the teacher in no way did I agree the comment was racist. My son is inquisitive. He always likes to ask questions, but that doesn’t make him a racist.’

You cannot speak Hindu. It's a religion. Hindi is a language spoken by many Hindu people, although not exclusively. Not massively 'culturally aware' of him and a little racist IMO.

OP, what is your general relationship with the school like? I found that complaining generally just makes things worse as, in my experience, schools do not like being challenged or questioned on any decisions they make. I doubt that complaining will make any difference to the outcome in this case.

Also DH is saying how can anyone actually know what was said. It was over a week ago and there were no witnesses. It is not corroborated. They have heard one side of the story. They have not actually talked to DS, or us, about it before concluding racism and the punishment.

It feels like they've panicked and felt they must TAKE ACTION NOW.

'If the child has been showing a pattern or disruptive, rude behaviour, should the school pretend none of it has happened if the parents demand it?'

I don't think minor incidents should be recorded in a log and I think that after 1 or 2 years, minor incidents should be wiped, so the child has a clean slate.

But, OP, you said she wasn't speaking "her language". She was speaking English. Would your son have told a white child not to speak Hindi?

She wasn't soeaking a different language, she was speaking English. He wouldn't have said it to a White child.

And FWIW when a child made disgusting, vile disablist remarks about me to one of my children I took it as far as I could with the school too. If they hadn't have taken it seriously I'd have gone to the Police. I don't care how it affected the child who said it, they knew what they were doing, it was my child I cared about, so I don't blame the girl's parents.

He has only been at the school since September (Y7).

Would your son have told a white child not to speak Hindi?

No, he would probably have told her to "stop talking gobbledegook"...........then all the Gobbles would have been up in arms instead.

'It feels like they've panicked and felt they must TAKE ACTION NOW.'

I think they have to because a complaint has been made. I don't think there is anything you can do because

"Labour put schools under a duty in 2002 to record all incidents involving perceived racism and report them to their local authority."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148621/Britains-schools-record-115-racist-incidents-day-teachers-admit-seen-pupils-abused.html

"It does not apply to the situation where someone may try to justify their actions with comments like “I didn’t mean any harm” or “I was only joking”. If the victim or anyone else involved considers the incident to be racially motivated, then it should be recorded as such."

new.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/10547/Guidance-on-Reporting-and-Responding-to-Racist-Incidents.pdf

So where do you draw the line on keeping behavioural records, claig? When does a minor incident become a major incident? If you wipe the records of minor incidents that happened three years ago, but in fact the child shows a long history of such minor incidents, doesn't it become misleading if you've pretended the first in the pattern never happened? And where does racism fit in the category of minor or major incidents?

How do you know exactly what your DS said? How do you know he isn't trying to lie himself out of trouble? Are you prepared if the school come back with witnesses and evidence of that?