To think that whilst DS' comment was wrong it was not racist?

[HaHaLOL]

DS is in year 7. An Indian girl was talking very quickly in English to him and being silly. He said "stop talking flippin' Hindu".

Today we've had a letter saying he has been given a Senior Staff Detention, in big bold letters - "for making a racist comment". He told me he had to write a letter to her and her parents (don't have a problem with this at all). This is all because the parents have made a complaint against him.

Now he has a fiery temper and we can imagine him saying sth like that out of anger/frustration. DH is sure it's not actually a racist comment and thinks it's like saying to someone "stop speaking double Dutch" and he thinks its PC gone mad.

DS' head of year told him today that his comment will go to the local council and be recorded in a "racist comments" book. Is this true?! Surely she wouldn't have made it up!

I would add that DH's best two best friends are Chinese and Indian. We lived in Asia for a year. DS went to a huge international school. He would have had more nationalities in his class than the whole of our town I would imagine. His best friends were Japanese, Korean, American and English. For 2 years DS has been learning Mandarin. I cannot imagine a more culturally aware 11 year old among his peers.

DH wants to write to the Head to challenge the racism angle, particularly if it's gone down in some record at the council.

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone. I just want to get some other views, please.

Thank you.

Actually, claig, detentions do go on children's school records. If, say, a child is excluded because of a record of disruptive behaviour, it is important for the school to be able to produce the records in order to justify their decision.

Icimoi, I am wary of records for playground scuffles or insults or name calling. I think these should be dealt with with adequate punishments, but there is no need to put minor incidents on record. We don't know what governments will gain power in the future and how they will use the data that they make the laws and regulations that schools and others have to collect.

'a child is excluded because of a record of disruptive behaviour'

Yes, exclusion is fairly serious isn't it?

A 6 year old calling another child a name is not as serious.

claig, if we take your argument about incidents being recorded to its logical conclusion, we would have to stop schools keeping records of learning difficulties, children's religions, backgrounds, race, and indeed their educational progress and attainments. After all, we don't know what governments might do with that information in the future, do we?

No, DS doesn't have anger issues actually. I didn't put that very well. I would say he is just a typical 11 year old in terms of ups and downs and dealing with his emotions and hormones. He is incredibly loving, adores his DB and has never been in a fight or any other confrontation. In fact he avoids confrontation. Sorry if I gave the impression that he has anger issues. That is not what I meant.

In some countries, Italy, I think, an employer cannot ask for references.

It is about balance and in whose interest it should fall. I don't like teh ever expanding record keeping of minor incidents for pupils and I worry about where it might lead in the future. I think teh rights of children should come first, above those of the authorities. Also are parents and children allowed to see what records schools hold on them?

No, claig, you're not getting it. An exclusion is serious. However, if the fact is that the child in question has a long record of disruptive behaviour and normal punishments aren't working, you won't be able to exclude the child unless the school has kept records of each incident of disruption. After all, on the first or second incident, you don't know whether these are one-offs or not; but if you haven't kept a record, you can't possibly exclude the child and write up the records afterwards. Also the school needs to keep a record in case there is any complaint about the way it is dealing with the child, or in case the behaviour is indicative of a learning difficulty.

'schools keeping records of learning difficulties'

Some parents may challenge that assessment and may not want their children to have that recorded. I think the rights need to lie with parents and children above those of the state.

All records should be open and accessible to the parents and should be allowed to be challenged and old information should be wiped off in some cases.

Yes, claig, of course parents can see their children's school records.

Can they remove and challenge entries about name calling or bullying or anything else?

So, claig, if schools refuse to keep any records of problems that might indicate that a child has learning difficulties in case a minute number of parents object, how are they going to deal with the vast majority of cases where the parents actually want their child's learning difficulties recorded so that they can access the help to which their children are entitled by law? You can't get an Education, Health and Care Plan unless the school can back up the case for it fully.

They can remove entries if they can be demonstrated to be untrue.

Chimes I feel so sorry for your children, being brought up to think it's difficult to get through a day without making a racist, sexist, ageist etc. remark, when all around them, most everyone else who doesn't hold disgusting views finds it quite simple. After making a mistake at 11 it would surely be writing a child off prematurely and unnecessarily to go down the line of 'oh but it's too difficult to avoid' rather than just correct the child and get on with life.

NRTFT but sorry OP I think it should be classed as racist. Sometimes schools have to set a precedent to show that they have zero tolerance towards these things and letting this slide would go completely against that.

Re the local council thing, it won't be on any record and your son's name won't be mentioned, nor the circumstances, but it will be a mark on a spreadsheet somewhere to say a racist incident occurred at X school. For FOI purposes and to ensure the school is tracked and policed according. That way to many marks on the spreadsheet ensures correct enquiries are made to why there is a race issue at the school.

*too many

It was a racist comment IMO, very very ill judged and quite horrible tbh.

Your assertions in the OP about how multi cultural he is, some of his best friends are Korean etc etc - can't you see how much of a stereotypical comment this is to excuse racism? It's almost laughable.

Your subsequent posts with a list of various excuses, he is sensitive, he was provoked etc, and the fact your DH is writing to HT shows your attitude very clearly. If that was my DS I would be ashamed of him and wouldn't be excusing him, bleating about how multi cultural he is and that the school wrote to you instead of calling you..... really?

Am quite shocked by your attitude tbh.

"88,000 children branded racists: Pupils as young as three reported over name-calling"

Did this happen when we were kids? Is it really necessary?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148621/Britains-schools-record-115-racist-incidents-day-teachers-admit-seen-pupils-abused.html

And the Coalition seem to view it differently to how Labour saw it. These rules are made on high and are implemented by schools.

"Schools were advised by Labour to make written records of all racist incidents and report the statistics to local councils.

Although the Coalition dropped the obligation, many schools still do so."

' how are they going to deal with the vast majority of cases where the parents actually want their child's learning difficulties recorded '

Can't they ask the parents if they agree that they want it recorded?

I don't feel I am making excuses for him. I feel I am trying to explain what happened. He's 11 years old and he has lived a varied life and has friends from many countries. He did not intend to make a racist comment. I think the other parent has gone too far and I think the fact that she works in a school has largely informed her decision to take this so far.

Claig, why don't you start a new thread frothing about education and how all the ills of society are caused by left wingers instead of trying to derail yet another thread with endless links to the Daily Fucking Mail?

"The Mail on Sunday reported at the weekend how Ms White was called in by school staff following the incident and asked to sign a form acknowledging that her son had made a racist remark.

She said: '‘I was told I would have to sign a form acknowledging my son had made a racist remark which would be submitted to the local education authority for further investigation.

‘I refused to sign it and I told the teacher in no way did I agree the comment was racist. My son is inquisitive. He always likes to ask questions, but that doesn’t make him a racist.’

Ms White, who lives in a three-bedroom house with her son and nine-year-old daughter Olivia, has now applied to have Elliott moved from the school."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103707/Mother-Nicola-Allen-slams-Griffin-Primary-School-branding-sons-question-racist-incident.html

What happened to common sense? Why all this legalese with councils and signing acknowledgements about children having made racist statements?

Wow, there's a lot of hot air blowing around on this thread. Are we living in a police state yet? No? Phew.

He said it because she has brown skin. Simple as that. If she was white he wouldn't have said it. In anger he chose a racial feature to pick on and pretend that she was so foreign he couldn't understand her. That shows that he knows that someone's race can be a "bullying factor" and has chosen to use it against her. It was a racist act, even though I'm sure he's a lovely kid. I'm sure he'll be mortified and will never do it again, thereby avoiding potential self-consciousness and upset for people he meets in the future. Result. Unless you and your husband team up to act as if it were totally fine?

To me it's like saying to a black student "stop speaking swahili" when they were annoying you. Or "stop speaking voodoo" perhaps. Definitely not ok.

"So we are now having to teach our children (shall we start at 4?) what to say and how not to say things." Yes - everyone does it, mostly it's known as "good manners". You may even have tried it yourself.

Oh - and "double Dutch" isn't actually a language! Unless there's a Double Netherlands I haven't heard of yet.

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what's the nature of his relationship with this girl? Are they good friends? Do they banter?