to ask people not to touch toddlers not related to them?

[evalyn]

Out yesterday with DGC. DGC walking, within grabbing distance, but not holding hands. Middle aged woman, 'Aah, gorgeous!', gently ruffles DGC's hair, smiles broadly at me. DGC shrinks away. I say to this woman, 'Yes, but you shouldn't touch, please.' Woman sniffs, nose in air, walks off in huff.

AIBU to think that even 2-year-olds have the right not to be touched at all, however affectionately, by strangers? And to be really annoyed that this woman thinks she has the right to ruffle my DGC's hair like that?

Gosh, zipzap three people stroked my dog today without asking me! And another lady tapped my shoulder when we were on the bus and told me how lovely he was.

And I thought it was very nice of them. Not a bit of "stepping over the line". He's a friendly wee dog and he loved the attention.

What line is this? It's clear from this thread that only a small number of posters think there is something wrong with normal human contact. Touch is one of the five senses after all.

That's such a good point mehitabel about people wanting child friendly on their own rather frigid terms.

DD never complained to anyone who touched her, just complained to me afterwards. We are a very touchy family, so no restrictions from me being precious.

I suppose it depends - would you be happy if a stranger ruffled your hair/touched your cheek? If not, then why is it ok for it to be done to a child who may not want to be touched?

RaisingMen, well if they said they couldn't help themselves because I'm so darned adorable and gorgeous, I think I might be able to cope.

Strangely, I can't remember the last time that happened.

This thread has made me really sad. I travel quite a bit with work and to visit my sister who lives abroad. I'm often sat next to kids on planes. I always talk to them especially if a mum is travelling with a couple of kids on her own. I'm now wondering if my friendliness is misconstrued after reading some of the replies on here.

oh is this some goady fucker who's run out people to moan to in real life?

KatieKaye - on the other hand my dog is very anxious and hates being patted by strangers. So I prefer it when people ask before trying to stroke her so I can ask them not to please. If they go for it anyway she will put her tail between her legs and flinch away.

There is a world of difference between thoughtlessly assuming a child is okay with a stranger (completely innocently) touching them and ever even looking at a child in case you offend their parents, any kind of hysteria over paedophiles or thinking that children should be allowed to run into traffic before you should let a stranger restrain them. I'm not sure why people are (possibly deliberately) confusing these very different issues.

showy if your gran had asked that would be different to just reaching out and touching without asking - in the same way that you wouldn't expect a grown person to reach out and touch you or your gran without asking...

katie I'm not a dog owner but most people that I know that have dogs usually like people - especially if they're young - to make some sort of contact with them before they launch in and stroke them. Maybe it's just eye contact or a comment of isn't he a cute dog or whatever - but something - not just walk past, ruffle the dog and ignore the owner. There are lots of dogs that love attention and that's great - but there are also plenty that don't like to be stroked/patted/etc some or all of the time so surely it's always sensible to check that it's ok to stroke them before you reach down and get your fingers nipped!

(and also - on a separate note - the 5 senses thing was one of those lies / incomplete truths that they taught at school - there's not a consensus amongst neuroscientists but it's thought that we have about 21 senses, including things like pain, temperature, fullness, time, itching and so many more...)

Because babies or small children who don't want to be touched usually show it by looking upset if someone comes towards them, or start crying.

My littlest DGC will bore holes in the side of your head with his eyes until you pay him some attention. He loves it!

And ruffling hair? You're barely touching them, doing that!

You see, to me, people should absolutely treat children as human beings by playing peek-a-boo, smiling, playing with toys in a play group, chatting on a plane, even complimenting them on their lovely hair or cheeky grin. It's a wonderful interaction. But when you touch them because you want to, you're not respecting them as a human being any more - you're putting your own desire to touch them above their right not to be touched. At the very least, ask! And I don't even mean ask the mother, I mean ask the child, the human being you are interacting with. I don't know any child who likes having their cheeks pinched, FFS, it hurts!

It was a hair ruffle! A bloody hair ruffle. That.is.all.

Fabulous46 my DD would have been more than happy to chat to you. As long as you didn't touch her.

You spoken a lot of sense MrsDV.

An older child may be polite and tell you afterwards they didn't like it, but a toddler, which this was, has no such inhibitions. If you have been playing peekaboo, with toys etc and then touch them of course you are treating them as a human being- you have worked out a happy relationship - it is the mother who gets possessive and transfers her feelings onto the child.

I agree about the 'more danger' MrsDeVere.

Wow this thread is sad. I mean - jeez speechless

Feel really sorry for the man at the playgroup and the poor friendly lady in the OP's post.

zipzap - I never said they shouldn't have asked before clapping. that's only sensible. I've been around dogs all my life so I do know that. Although anyone who actually does know dogs will recognise the "keep away" signs that a nervous dog emits. My dog is not nervous. On the contrary, he loves attention and is very affectionate.

What I did say that was that I did not see people touching my dog without my permission as stepping over some imaginary line you appear to have randomly drawn in the sand.

In any case, there is a world of difference between stroking a nervous dog which carries a risk of being bitten and ruffling a toddler's hair! It was a rather strange analogy to make and I was just pointing out that it didn't actually work because loads of random people do stroke dogs without "asking permission". I do it all the time when I see dogs tied up outside shops and as I understand the signals they give out I've never been bitten in over 50 years of random dog clapping.

People touch one another as part of every day life. We nudge other people, shake hands, give a consoling pat etc. it is part and parcel of normal life. Many people instinctively reach out to a small child extending a hand, as with Tooold. There is a world of difference between this and predatory intentions.

MrsDeVere some children just don't like being touched. My DD was one of them it was certainly not due to lack of interaction or inappropriate interaction. She's 20 now and still doesn't like random people touching her that she doesn't know.

HSMMaCM I'm not a touchy person by nature (except with people I know) although I can tolerate little kids touching me (like the little one on the plane earlier this week.) If an adult had touched my hair I'd have said something.

I still think the OP over reacted to the person who ruffled her DGC's hair. My DD would have shied away from anyone touching her hair just like I do. However I'm probably weird as I even cringe at the hairdressers.