to ask people not to touch toddlers not related to them?

[evalyn]

Out yesterday with DGC. DGC walking, within grabbing distance, but not holding hands. Middle aged woman, 'Aah, gorgeous!', gently ruffles DGC's hair, smiles broadly at me. DGC shrinks away. I say to this woman, 'Yes, but you shouldn't touch, please.' Woman sniffs, nose in air, walks off in huff.

AIBU to think that even 2-year-olds have the right not to be touched at all, however affectionately, by strangers? And to be really annoyed that this woman thinks she has the right to ruffle my DGC's hair like that?

even if the op thought it was the right thing to do surely she would have been so embarassed to have been really rude to that poor woman, who probably now won't bother being polite to other children in case of being told off. it's a sad state all round really

It's depressing as hell. I feel so sorry for the evil hair ruffler.

Tychos I do have respect for children, I do not see them as possessions, when I played peek a boo and held her hand, it was a genuine reaction.
It seems to me that it may be the parents who view their children as possessions actually, not as small human beings who may welcome a new face. Experiences come from all walks of life when a child is growing up, it seems a shame to restrict their interaction, in a safe and controlled environment.
Of course there are children who have no interest in strangers, and who do not want to be touched, played with or spoken to by anyone outside of their circle, and that is fine, no problem. I do believe though, that most adults can recognise that and respond accordingly. It would never occur to me to find a random child in the supermarket, dash up to it and hold it's hand. Most adults respond to the child, not the other way around.

Well said Tooold.

Well said Tooold

I can generally tell if a child does not want to interact-I think most people can. The mother is a different story!

But the op's dgc didn't want to be touched so hair-ruffler-woman did get it wrong.

I have no problem with strangers touching a kid who is comfortable with it. From your story tooold i can't tell whether the kid was happy to be touched or not.

exactly, Mehitabel.

And then there are the outgoing children who pick up on their parent's peculiarities and start "shrinking away" as in the OP. It sounds awfully like a learned behaviour and I feel sorry for the poor little boy

Bloody hell, love how so many have jumped on the word "fondled", my mistake, it never occurred to me it would be interpreted like that - substitute for stroked, tickled, cuddled, whatever it is strangers do to random small children. I'm certainly not intending to teach my child to be scared of strangers or that everyone's a paedophile. I just think we as adults give permission one way or another for us to be touched - just because children can't easily do that yet, doesn't mean they've waived their right to bodily autonomy.

YABVU. Not long ago someone in a supermarket frowned at me and turned her baby away when I had the audacity to smile at him. She would have probably called the police if I'd tousled his hair. Sad state of affairs.

We don't know that Tychos, you are making assumptions.

Did the woman smile at him and he beamed back? Did he run up to her? Probably not, but you cannot caterorically state that he did not want to be touched, we just do not know. It was an over reaction in any case.

I couldn't give a toss for your opinion on my encounter. I know what happened. A child plays, giggles, waves ( in that cute openhand ,close hand way), then holds her hand out, which I took instinctively. If you cannot read signals like that, then I feel sorry for you.

ElkTheory As I said upthread, that happens to me too. I can't imagine what can be going through the minds of parents/grandparents who do that. It makes my day if I smile at a baby and get a lovely big beaming smile back. That's spoilt when the parents react badly to their child smiling at me. I don't know what harm they think has been done.

As I was about to leave the hairdresser's this morning a mum came in with her toddler. Apparently he used to be terrified of having his hair cut. He ran into the shop, arms open wide and hugged the hairdresser:it was lovely to see. Only moments earlier we had been discussing this and she was saying that she'd begun to question herself being so outgoing with children who want a hug in case their parents didn't like it. (This mum was fine with the hug, and smiling broadly).

And yes - I wondered if the little boy shrinking away was learned behaviour, and feel sorry for this friendly woman in the face of the OP's rudeness.

In and of itself it's not harmful. But you can teach your toddler that if they don't want to be touched it's ok to tell a stranger "Don't touch me!". Then if the stranger reacts badly, you can take it from there.

Just so long as your toddler knows they have the right to refuse any form of affection no matter the reason.

No need to feel sorry for me tooold

I am making assumptions about the situation described by op. We all are. The kid "shrinks away". That sounds to me like a clear non-verbal signal, but yes, I wasn't there, so I could well be wrong. Point taken. I'll bow out now.

No need for that Tychos just differences of opinion

I am just touchy because of the reaction to me, take no notice!

Greece, Spain, Italy......many countries in fact should be avoided as holiday destinations if parents are so perturbed by benign hair rufflers.

Another YABU from me OP, for all the reasons posted by MrsDeVere and others. DS was a blond, curly, old lady magnet when he was a toddler. Now that he is 7, he is well known by the adults in our area which is good for his self esteem and safety.

I teach him about good and bad touching, but to teach him that all touching is bad is unhealthy and paranoid IMHO.

Have only skimmed the thread, but it is making me think about a recent incident involving my sweet FIL.

ILs are visiting from our home country and very kindly took my toddler to his regular play group on a day we have no childcare, so that I could work. I knew something had happened from FIL's face when they came home - according to MIL, a toddler had run up to FIL and handed him a toy, and FIL took the toy and bent down to talk to him, and the child's mother raced across the hall and snatched her child away without a word. The group is tiny, and everyone knows everyone else, so that even if the other mother hadn't previously met the ILs, who have been at the group before, she would know my son and me, and grasp the relationship.

FIL, who is a sweetie (and a tiny, frail old man) was really shaken, and feels he was suspected of being a potential paedophile, and says he's sorry, he can't take my son to the group again.

It's saddened me, because he clearly feels somehow dirtied by what sounds to me like an inoffensive action...

cheesecakemom Sat 22-Nov-14 16:01:42

'This is the same as a colleague who used to regularly ruby [presuming is typo & is meant to read 'rubbing' ???] belly with both hands and go "ooohh for good luck"! Very intrusive!!'

Erm... am bit confused Cheese What do you mean by 'regularly rubbing' your belly AND you finding it 'very intrusive'

Presumably, if you found it 'intrusive' (I'd find the term 'uncomfortable' a wee bit less dramatic than 'intrusive', but each to their own n'all that), you would surely have said so?

In which case it wouldn't be 'regularly....very intrusive' as it would only have happened the once and not after that once you'd issued a cease and desist letter articulated yourself and been clear you were uncomfortable with it? Or did you NOT say anything??? As manifestly it CAN'T have been BOTH* 'regularly' AND 'intrusive' had you asked them to refrain and explained you were someone who really didn't feel comfortable with it?

How can you teach a child boundaries and the difference between normal affection and 'bad touching' if you can't actually do it for yourself? Am truly baffled by your post....

Blueteas that's really sad.

Blueteas Your FIL sounds lovely. Give him some from MN.

That's so horrible, Blueteas . How well do you know the mum? Is she as big a muppet as she sounds?
I couldn't let that go, actually. She'd be feeling the rough edge of my tongue on my next visit.

rub not 'rubbing'

TooOld You sound lovely, please don't stop being your normal lovely and SAFE self just because of one nuts and rude precious GM; and Blueteas OMG your poor FiL. That must have felt just horrendous for him.

Truely, what a fucking sad world we live in where normal behavior is becoming demonised and yet most ACTUAL bloody paedophiles persist in being able to maintain their behaviour via both their plausibilty and the fact so many people are of the "Oh nooooooo, XY would NEVER do that" brigade.

Trust me, the people you want to watch out for are usually the ones you would least suspect - and very def NOT the sweet lady or the elderly gent who makes a sweet gesture IN PLAIN BLOODY SIGHT

What an utterly fucking depressing thread and what a cowardly OP who seems to have done a bunk.