To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

Can I just say as someone who has worked on an 18 bedded medical ward for babies aged 0-2 for three years it is very rare to come across breast feeding mothers.

I'm obviously not saying the babies are ill because they are FF but it goes to show how few babies are actually breast fed these days.

Yesas a society we should work on feeling good whatever choices we make - agree absolutely

The way you give birth or feed isn't important as long as the baby is ok - no, not so sure. It is important to the mother and I feel strongly we shouldn't dismiss how individual women feel.

lying I think it all depends on personal experience. You say there's immense pressure to Bf but I have always from day 1 had pressure from all angles to FF. And now DD is still BF at 18 months it's worse and I constantly get asked when I'm going to stop.
It all comes down the fact that mothers are pressured no matter what on a variety of things, but ALL mothers need support to do what is best for their baby and parent how they want to

Chipping... Well maybe they shouldn't give advice if they can't do it without adding a whiff of judgement. If people want advice they will ask for it. You wanted it and were supported in your feeding choices.

There is a lot of judgement on this thread and it stinks, quite frankly. If you see that as an 'attack', well that's how you see it.

There are some eloquent posters on MN who would possibly be able to pinpoint where stating one's own preference crosses the line to judgement. I read it when I see it (all too often) but can't articulate it into semblance of cohesive and concise comment.

Yes Princess, people are very dismissive of felling a 'because babyis OK'. My poor SIL had a horrendous birth that has put her off having another baby and is lumbered with bad memories of her DDs first days as she was so badly affected by the birth. People tell her "yes but the baby is fine and that's what matters" - that statement completely invalidates her feelings about her birth experience. She doesn't feel like 'less of a mother' but she feels like her feelings are considered important

I'm a little odd I had an elcs by choice....no med reasons....I chose to ff from birth....I feel immense pride when I think about dd journey so far....

I find it really hard to understand the 'guilt' so often discussed regarding this topic but I really do try to empathise....

I remember a young mother being treated horribly in hospital trying to bf her dc and really struggling....there was barely any support for her. I heard her asking questions about trying formula and she was spoken to very sharply....In a "well in you want to give up" manner On the other hand very scant support with her Bf it seemed. I remember hearing her sobbing.

I was horrified....

*arent!

chippy I feel sad when I hear stories like that - your poor SIL. The mother is as important as the baby and dismissing her feelings is just so cruel.

only that sums up everything wrong with postnatal support in this country - things are getting better in some places thankfully

But Princess, do you think mothers would care as much if there wasn't such a great big work-up about it in the first place? It's a chicken and egg situation.

I'm a big fan of the Thorn Birds especially the steamy bits It's 1937, Meggie has her first baby and she has no milk, so she buys some tins of Lactogen. That's it, Really, that's it. And then for her second baby, her breasts are overflowing, no need for tins of Lactogen. That's it. No analysis, no judgement. Simple. I realise it's only trashy fiction but this has stuck with me.

Hirly I think BF is pushed for a good reason - breastmilk is better for a baby and formula feeding costs the NHS £40million a year, so it does need pushing. Formula has millions of pounds poured into marketing to mothers every year, yet ironically not many people consider this being 'forced' upon us like breastfeeding allegedly is. They're quick to complain about comments made by midwives but not bollocks adverts being shoved out from our TVs on a daily basis.

The NHS are just competing with these enormous formula budgets in the only way they can - by talking directly to women about it.

Yes I do actually hurly though I admit I have no good evidence for thinking it! I guess it is based on my experience and that of a couple of my friends. We had a vague idea that bf was "better" in some way but that modern formula was fine, but we all really wanted to try bf for a few weeks, maybe a few months because it seemed like the natural thing to do, that's what breasts are for Etc. I read precisely nothing on bf before birth and didn't know anyone who had bf.

I don't think my friends and I are all that unusual in that but a lot of people say there is masses of pressure (antenatally) out there and I accept that must be happening in some places. I think it is very poor practise to bombard people with propaganda, of course - just saying I don't know people in RL who were pressured in that way.

Great point about formula, chippy, so true. I have a lot to say about formula marketing but sadly need to go feed my dc now!

i remember bf being easy ,but worried in case others thouht me 'superior' :I never judged anyone but occ felt if people 'too' determined to bf, they make themselves too anxious to do it, tho there's plenty other reasons why it can be difficult. In the past I've seen much more criticism of bfs for being preachy, than I've actually seen them criticising others

Sadly yes, soverylucky. It is very, very sad. I really like Hurly's "Thornbirds" point; decisive mum, no need or wish for intervention or head-patting.

No biro, I was saying that women who can't breastfeed certainly shouldn't feel guilty in response to some earlier posters who had described their huge struggles with breastfeeding and said that they felt as though they needed permission to stop, or that they had failed. Of course they shouldn't feel that way. Some people literally can't produce enough milk and there is little that can be done (there are medications that help and the option of donated milk, but these are pretty rare in the UK).

I wasn't implying that other mothers should feel guilty.

chippy ; I LOVE your post at 12:30 about the "bollocks adverts being shoved out from our TVs on a daily basis".But dont most folk buy their own?
also I agree with someone saying just to relax about the whole thing.
also someone said about the lack of real practical support from (probably too busy)midwives; it doesn't usually 'come naturally', the baby and the mother need to learn from someone patient who knows what they're about.

If FF was so terrible wouldn't we be able to tell the difference between children who were ff when they were babies vs children who were bf when they were babies? I bf for a while but I don't think I would have pursued if I had had lots of problems. My MIL still admires my That I could bf - she thinks it's quite a feat - I have no idea why!

Buy their own what jazzy ??
MrsMarc that doesn't invalidate the benefits of BFing. I think it's a bit off to imply that it doesn't make a difference either way when so many women struggle to succeed in BFing. Almost like saying "there's no point"

I think there is a point Chippy - of course there is - it's free and natural for a start.

BUT - the truth is - you can't tell the difference later on - you can't - that is a fact -
Doesn't validate or invalidate anything - Just a fact. Therefore mothers should stop beating themselves up - do it if you can and want to - it is wonderfully bonding, cheap and easy (eventually- maybe)
FF if you want - it is wonderfully bonding and once you get into a routine it gets easier.

Chippy

Totally agree with everything you have said on this thread and was about to post about the pushing BF/FF paradox.
FF has become the "norm" because its so heavily pushed and marketed and so everyone thinks that is BF is being forced on women if its even mentioned .

£40 million ? is that the budget just for formula or the cost of treating illness etc.

Those who mentioned not seeing the difference in a class of 4 year olds don't seem to understand that it is not specific ie if you FF your baby will get xy or z specifically but there are higher rates of illness in FF babies and that BF has a protective effect.
So in most cases FF doesn't cause it but BM protects against it.

There are also subtle differences in health over a life time and women who BF have lower risks of Breast cancer, ovarian cancer and also post partum haemorrhage( never heard anyone mentioning this) as when the baby suckles it causes the uterus to contract.

70 why would anyone want to look for a difference later on ?

Statistically there are differences in the health (during infancy and over the lifetime) of FF and BF babies and their mothers but you cant look at a child and see a defined difference when you are talking about reduced risks - although my dentist says he can spot a BF baby by teeth and jaw development even as an adult!

My mum was telling me we are all going to end up having a more defined jaw from not having chew or something but that is another debate.

I think what people are saying is the benefits you speak of do not take into account socioeconomic backgrounds and therefore could be/could not be specifically related to BF. An example of this is recently I heard in news that walking for 30 minutes a day reduces risk of cancer - (I do this and was thinking whoop whoop). However whe you start to thinks about it likely that people who walk for at least 30 mins take better care of themselves in other ways (eating etc) and are less likely to be obese - therefor is risk related to walking per SE.
I think BF is great - better than great but I can't stand over evangelical Arguments that are designed to make people bad on any subject.
Mothers are terrible and competing (my johnny was potty trained at 11 months and walking by 6 etc) and it forces other mothers to justify their child's behaviour or their own actions. I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter in the end - as they grow up and the other things factor I into their health/lifestyle.
How they feed for the first year of their life is important (of course) but not so important that people get PND because of it - or others feel superior because of it. Life is a long journey - be kind to yourself and others.

Another one here w/o received way to much advice and pressure to continue bf. It was like flogging a dead horse. I'm convinced, 23 years later that if the sensible option of switching to ff had been suggested earlier, I could have been spared a serious bout of pnd.

I think in research other factors are accounted for 70 otherwise how would any conclusions be drawn but Im not a researcher so would be interested to hear more from those who are.

There are some specific benefits that cant be related to anything else - the gut of BF babies is protected by substances in the BM for example reducing NEC risk dramatically in prem babies and reduction in tummy bugs in BF babies generally.