To wonder why ANYONE thinks that this is acceptable in a game?

[joshandjamie]

I am not a fan of violent games at the best of times, but apparently now in Grand Theft Auto 5's new upgrade you can have first person sex with a prostitute before shooting her in the head. With real sex noises. You can see a delightful clip here

I think anyone who plays this is sick. But I know that there are kids in my ten year old's class who have this game. Do the parents even know that they can do this???? I cannot believe any parent would be happy letting their kid or teen play this.

Yeah, it's fucked up, but it's pretty well documented that the gaming community is full of misogynistic weirdos with no social skills and a slightly loose grip on empathy, so there you go

What a load of absolute bollocks.

Can you actually back that up with any real documentation (rather than just some opinions on a forum or two) AggressiveBunting?

Look up Gamergate and Zoe Quinn.

But I'd venture to say they're the small outspoken minority. Most people that I know who own violent games (including GTA) are actually decent people irl.

Never played alien not really interested, but I can't go wrong with a disturbing horror game hugs my silent hill games close
and tbh yeah I have thought it through
i just don't care
and yes i did say it was an idiotic responce and a bad example. But to me, complaining about stuff like this, as I said, is like shouting "LOOK EVERYONE, A PILE OF DOG MUCK!!!" you just don't do it because to me it's silly. I've been playing games since before I was 5 years old, and so did DP, and his Dad, so did my uncle. they're all lovely and aren't violent.
To me, its exactly the same as young boys who watched cowboy and indian films and then recreate it in games of running about jumping on each other going "pew pew pew!" with their hands in a gun shape. Isn't that violent? isn't that copying? no one gave a flying monkey's about that did they?
The game is rated 18. Which means it should only be played by adults. Before adults buy the game for their children as there are no laws for PEGI M games, they get told "you do know that it contains sex violence and swearing right?". I've been in gameshops before when a woman has been shouting at a clerk and it went a bit like this.

Woman: HOW DARE YOU SELL ME THIS GAME, IT'S VILE!
Clerk: Miss, we have policy to tell you what is in the game when we sell it to you. It was your choice to buy the game.
Woman: IT HAS PROSTITUTES!!
Clerk: Yes, we would have told you this before you bought the game.
Woman: YES BUT MY SON WANTED IT AND I COULDN'T NOT GET IT!! ITS VILE AND SHOULD BE BANNED I WANT TO SEE THE MANAGER!
So they got the manager. He told her the same thing. She kept getting irate, and left in a huff when they said "you actually choose to do that in the game, it's not in the story".

If a child is with the one buying the game or says "i'm getting this for my son etc" then you have to be told what the game entails because there are no laws and it's a controversial game. there are SO many people on mumsnet who won't even let their 10 year olds watch harry potter because it might scare them, but go absolutely MENTAL when they get an 18 game for their children and it's scarred their precious minds don't buy it then? everyone on this site complains. I was watching Nightmare on Elm Street at 9, and i found it funny. I was and still am more scared of Crimewatch re-enactments than I am of horror films and although my dad didn't care, my mum objected to it. But still let me. I've turned out fine. games really aren't that big a deal. I've never shot anyone in the face and according to BBC and the DM and all them - games will ruin a childs mind. since when? back in the 90's the scariest games came out then. 1990, Sweet Home. 1995, Resident Evil, 1999, Silent Hill. Most of the kids who played those games back then are now die hard fans. they have something to enjoy. GTA has a lot of strategical elements to it. YES its bank robberies. But to be fair, PETA had a go at Pokémon for animal cruelty, are you going to stop your children from playing that? Deary me, Mumsnet. Always finding things to complain about that people don't really care about off the internet, or jumping on forum bandwagons... "THIS IS SO MYSOGINISTIC!!" Oh, so whena woman plays it, it's mysogynistic? hahaha. "THIS IS HURTFUL TO CHILDREN!!" and letting them play out isn't? It's not real for gods sake.

Look up Gamergate and Zoe Quinn.
But I'd venture to say they're the small outspoken minority.

I hope so, I've never actually seen a wild gamergater but I've seen more than one mock thread.

To me, its exactly the same as young boys who watched cowboy and indian films and then recreate it in games of running about jumping on each other going "pew pew pew!" with their hands in a gun shape. Isn't that violent? isn't that copying? no one gave a flying monkey's about that did they?

I like games too but playing cowboys and indians isn't on the same level as experiencing the grimy, almost dystopian world of GTA at all.

You can't even spell misogynistic, let alone understand it.

Look, if you can't see what's wrong with people; male, female, adult or child, choosing to spend their time role playing fucking and killing hookers, there really is no point talking to you.

solidussnake Agreed.

Also, you'd watch a controversial movie before letting your child. Why wouldn't you play a game before letting your child. Or at the very least, supervise them while they play?

I think it would also interest people to know that since video games violence has actually gone down, since porn rape has gone down. It's all well and good to have a little old fashion moral panic and say these things encourage certain attitudes because you personally disagree with it, but facts simply don't back any of that up.

I'm not saying kids should be exposed to this, I certainly will be selective about what DD plays. But statistics don't really prove that it harms them either.

They do though. You're not reading all of the facts. If you want an opinion based on the facts, you need to read ALL of the studies. There are a lot of them. I should know, I've had to read most of them.

You're so missing the point if you think "I play gta and I've never shot anyone in the face" is any kind of argument here. We can tell you've been desensitised if only because you are so cavalier about content that is incredibly graphic.

If DH wanted to play this game ( not that he plays on any console ) I would be appalled tbh.

I think it says something about a man who would think this was ok.

Look, i'm on a mobile. I type too quick. Yes there will be some typos. Also, it's not a word I use very often anyway. My spelling shouldn't matter, my point should.
I'm taking in what you're saying, just, what you're saying is wrong and to you, what I'm saying is wrong.
Also, if a man isn't actually going out and raping women I don't see ANY problem with video games at all. I am a gamer. Always have been and probably always will be. (also, these women in the game follow YOU. You don't HAVE to kill them at all. You pay them. They leave. You can kill them if you want, but you don't have to)

We can tell you've been desensitised if only because you are so cavalier about content that is incredibly graphic.

As someone who has play video game violence and witnessed real violence. I can promise you, there is just no comparison. There will never be a comparison. Watching someone get seriously hurt is nothing like hurting someone in a video game.

The news and the mass reports on violence and tragedy desensitize people too. Should we stop watching the news?

A video game can't desensitize people to violence because at the back of their mind they know it isn't real. The majority of people who say they are desensitized have never witnessed real violence (and I'm not talking a petty bar fight).

"I used to think correlation implied causation, then I took a statistics class, now I don't. "
"Sounds like the class helped"
"Well, maybe."

They do though. You're not reading all of the facts. If you want an opinion based on the facts, you need to read ALL of the studies. There are a lot of them. I should know, I've had to read most of them.

Link? I can't find studies outside a few Christian or feminist sites that have an obvious agenda. All the scientific unbiased studies say opposite.

I've not been desensitized. It's just never bothered me. Know why? My mother told me "It's not real, kid." What bothers me is real-life stuff.
More of my hobbies include watching sci-fi shows & crimw shows, reading about true crime, playing video games, writing/filming reviews... I am passionate about gaming. I studied it for christs sake. I will defend it till the cows come home, just like you'd defend something you were passionate about. I never had screen time. Homework done? Xbox on. Washing up done? laptop on. And it didn't go off, me mam could tell me all she wanted, i'd go back on it anyway after she'd gone to bed. And dya know what? I have an excellent job, and amazing partner, i have money in my pocket and food on the table and I would never, ever, hurt another human being. Ever.
But, for sure I would be able to survive a zombie apocalypse and work my way through puzzles and make quick decisions based off my gaming experience.

I don't know about links between playing games and violence, although I think that it has been shown that gaming a lot when young does cause changes they are not sure what and whether they are positive or negative I think?

Anyway.

I think this is not just to do with gaming (although parts of it do seem to be outrageously sexist from what I have read) but to do with the fact that sexual violence is now considered to be standard fare in entertainment generally. It didn't used to be. And I for one am not comfortable with that at all.

Yes, I would watch a controversial film before letting my child watch it. However, it takes much longer to pre-screen a game, even if you do have the necessary skills. The reality is that most people don't - which would be fine if the makers didn't clearly aim the marketing at much younger children (see megablocks range).

I don't think the kind of thing mentioned in the OP will make somebody go out and kill a prostitute, but it contributes to the every day sexism that makes people think its OK and a bit funny to send nasty sexist abusive tweets to Jessica Ennis Hill.

I really don't think all gamers are sad. I know people who design games. However, I think we are behind the curve when it comes to marketing games and examining and understanding their content - largely because games aren't accessible unless you are a gamer.

feminists on the internet HATE gamers. Thanks to that idiot anita sarkeesian thinking bayonetta is a sexualised woman meant to give men massive stonks.
Nah. Bayonetta was designed by a woman! So silly, the christian and feminist takes on video games are mental and stupid and are only really shared from internet feminazis and trolls. People with actual common sense can see everything they say is complete and utter tripe, those people play games becase it's fun, not because it's "sexual" it's an escape from reality. it's fun.

Out of interest if I've always played games since I was a girl although not all the time and usually not too obsessively, does that make me a "gamer"? I started with Manic Miner on my spectrum and enjoy WoW now so that's 30+ years

I don't like first person shoot em ups though - when people say "gamer" what do they actually mean? Is it a specific sort of game, or always being up to date with everything that's going on, or what? Just interested now

I don't think the kind of thing mentioned in the OP will make somebody go out and kill a prostitute, but it contributes to the every day sexism that makes people think its OK and a bit funny to send nasty sexist abusive tweets to Jessica Ennis Hill.

Yeah, but I think that's more of a case of.

Normal person + anonymity + audience = Total fuckwad.

They have an audience egging them on in an online forum, in the same way boys do in the locker rooms when they do stupid shit. I'm not entirely confident we can make a few outspoken trolls who are trolling just to stir things up and show off an accurate representation of people's attitudes. Not only are they in a certain age demographic, but they're also in a certain demographic of people within that age group that do that sort of thing. It's hardly a representation of society.

so watch reviews? i wouldn't let my child play silent hill HD collection because i've played it and it has an amazing, compelling story. It's gorgeous. BUT a child wouldn't grasp how literally amazing the story is and play it because they get to shoot things, nope. Thats not how its played and I wouldn't be able to watch someone do that
games are accessable to everyone who has a smartphone. Everyone. Emulators are out there. You can get on youtube/gamespot and watch a review. You can simply look at the age rating on it. it's really not hard to do. You can play 10 minutes of a game and figure out what it is. Honestly. It's not hard. And it can be fun for you, too.
My mother went mad with me for buying a 3DS with resident evil revelations (18) and Pokémon X (7) know why? games are for children in her eyes. she knows how gory the games i like are, and you'd only know my favourite games had sexual elements if you realised the symbolism, there's no outright sex, the whole sexual aspect of say SH2 is the monsters that are part of the psyche of the character - the sexualised nurses, the manifestation of the man's dead wife. it's compelling as hell and keeps you on the edge of your seat but hard to understand. The games aren't for children. a child can't understand that, and wouldn't understand even how to play Mario Kart or Pokémon the right way. it's meant to be strategical and can help a child to realise how to make decisions in real time. Resident evil 3 made me choose live or die. I didn't choose in 2 seconds so I died. Games everyone!!!

seven a gamer is a person who plays games. Sometimes even if you play facebook games, you are a "casual" gamer. If you're like me, you're a "hardcore" gamer. Solitaire like my mum plays is a casual game, so whether she likes me playing with my consoles or not, and thinks games are for kids, my mother is a gamer. My grandma plays candycrush. Gamer.
If you play video games, you're a gamer.

Check out Common Sense Media, merrymouse, it crunches many hours of game into a short read, it's my standard recommendation in 'should I buy x?' threads. I play games and I certainly wouldn't comb a game for adult content before buying it as a present, it's not reasonable. Highly useful.

This thread's about to go down the shitter isn't it? Not naming names

in my pp i said a child wouldn't understand. I meant young children below the age rating

"Maybe I'm missing something about GTA as I haven't played it. But from seeing clips and listening to teenage boys talk about it, it's just senseless violence. Running around and killing people for no reason. At least other games have a point, killing bad guys etc"

The impression you have formed of the game is wrong. It's not running around and killing people for no reason. (To be fair, you kill people for BAD reasons, because you play a criminal. That's why it's called Grand Theft Auto.)

It's interesting though that you get this impression from teenage boys, and perhaps their experience of the open world sandbox style of play is that they do find it amusing to run around killing people for no reason. I suppose it is a fair criticism that the inclusion of things like the prostitutes who have no contribution to make to the storyline does encourage this style of play, because you need to step away from the mission to go and see what you can do with these features. Most people are going to find the features very empty - you get a lapdance, it's not too much fun, you find that you've lost some cash and your character has advanced and developed in no way whatsoever, so back to the story. I appreciate the comment above that this stuff is there for the controversy and isn't really helping gamers, just Rockstar. Maybe shooting these NPCs is a reaction to the fact that the whole experience has been a disappointment.

Um I hate to point it out but MN is a predominantly female website and has an awful lot of women who espouse feminist thinking and oh look it's on the internet....

I'm not sure that the best way of garnering support on MN is to call a safe large proportion of posters "feminazis" who talk "tripe".

Surely it's not hard to understand why women would get upset about a game where a woman working as a prostitute (how come she's doing that job? is it because she wants to?) services some bloke and then he shoots her in the head. I mean, clearly women on a parenting website, or indeed in general,are going to think, well that sounds a bit off.

Is it really hard to understand why people might think that?

Bayonetta was designed by a woman!

Yes, in a company owned by a man. Don't be so silly with that argument. A woman wanting to get paid is going to design what sells. Sex sells, so she's going to design that way to keep her job and move up through the company. Don't be naive.

There are women editors for magazine models. Hell, magazine models are female. Does that mean because women work in that industry that it's suddenly ok and isn't meant to put pressure on women to stay skinny?

Anita Sarkeesian wanted better representation of women. There's nothing wrong with that. You can make an excellent game without overly sexualizing women or making them damsels in distress. Look at Rain.

The problem with her, is that she doesn't actually play video games. So how can she possibly make a proper and accurate assessment in an industry she doesn't even participate in.

SevenZarkSeven You play games, you're a gamer. The title isn't just for the FPS crowd. My personal favorite is Little Big Planet series.