To hate Santa?

[SilverSilverSilver]

... or at least the idea.

DS voiced how magical it was that every child in the world got presents on Christmas Day.

I told him that didn't happen. I told him that millions of children don't even have clean water to drink, let alone presents. DS is not even 5 but I couldn't let him believe that. It is so disrespectful to those poor children.

Every year I watch this avalanche of horrendous consumerism and my heart breaks for the millions with nothing. Absolutely nothing. I told DS that Saint Nicholas was a man who helped poor children a long time ago and we remember him by giving presents to other people. I told him we need to remember people who can't buy presents and help them get the things they need.

I waited for his heart to break but all he said was "So Santa just means giving presents?" and we made a list of ways to help the children who don't have presents, or food, or clean water, or safe beds.

I may well have ruined his childhood but since vast populations of the world don't even celebrate Christmas, I think he will be alright...

Best thread ever! You have made my day.

Op, couldnt you have glossed over it and saved it all for when he is older? Are you not worried you could have made him really depressed and upset? Surely its a small personal sacrifice to make?

notime That is what I was getting at with him, that "Santa" just means the love and devotion of giving etc.

And he seems to be happy with that.

I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about abject poverty? Even for a four year old? When is it appropriate to learn about the problems in the world?

Re. children learning about Ebola, how on earth does that ruin their innocence?

Yes but how has the truth helped your 4 year old. How has it helped children in country's who our starving?
The truth is great, when it is told to a child at the correct time . A 4 year old does not need to know the harsh reality's that some children starve to death. Have nothing, the same as they don't need to know about other ugly truths in the world until they can understand them

This is one of the most famous editorials ever written. It was answering a letter from 8 year old Virginia Hanlon, and was wriitten by Francis P. Church, and first published in The New York Sun in 1897:

We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:

Dear Editor—
I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, “If you see it in The Sun, it’s so.” Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O’Hanlon

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
You tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

When is it appropriate to learn about the problems in the world? when they are older.

Op, you dont mind telling your 4 year old about abject poverty and ebola are you going to treat him to Aushwitz for Christmas? Are you going to show him the real levels of human depravity, show him Hotel Rwanda? Do you show him footage of Isis victims and tell him of the slaughter going on? All these are equally important issues...why wait?

Where does it stop where does it begin?

Does he even know what death entails yet?

All your talk of 'poverty' etc. ruined many a Christmas for me as a child. I never did open a present, or eat a meal, without feeling guilty. That was an appalling burden to put on a child as young as I was.

But in your opening post you do say 'I may well have ruined his childhood but since vast populations of the world don't even celebrate Christmas, I think he will be alright'.

This implies you did it for selfish reasons, so you could give yourself a gold star for your right-on values. I don't suppose your son gets gold stars, far too glittering and fun.

I only ask because you need to have a good grasp of what death is, before you can comprehend something like abject poverty.

claraschu Mon 17-Nov-14 23:07:53

Gorgeous thank goodness the journo wasnt the op, would have been a very different letter.

never did open a present, or eat a meal, without feeling guilty. That was an appalling burden to put on a child as young as I was

I had a bit of that too, I was too aware we had no money! I used to mention our money or lack of it to DD until I realised again I didint want to burden her with worrying about our finances they are not her problem. They are mine and dh.

How does Ebola ruin their innocence?? give your four year old break, please. Why do you think he needs to be told about it? I'm sure he's not hearing about it from anyone but you,and there is no need for you telling him

It was the "I waited for his heart to break" that got my goat. Then the excuses further down for not feeding a single person, just a note about sending her old crap to a charity store.

I'd have just gone with the every child's happy thing for a 4 year old but I'm sure he wont be distraught. If you want him to have the empathy of an adult tho you may just have your own bubble burst there.

Good post tiggy. I concur.

Think op needs to learn the subtle art of telling the truth to a child bit by bit, even if that does include being a bit flexible with the truth.

ie . What is ebola..it is a horrible virus which makes people very sick,and people are trying to raise money so that the doctors can help people and find a cure.
not..ebola is a virus which kills most people in a slow and horrifying way where they bleed out of there eyes and the world is in a panic as it is spreading and we don't all want to die.

child - what happens when we die?
well we don't know for sure but alot of people believe we go to heaven which is where everyone we live will be to look after us.
Not - we die, the undertaker gets us and puts us in a box and we either burn it, or bury it in the ground where it slowly gets decomposed

sue

I agree re the "waited for his heart to break" comment

But why don't they need to know why some people have nothing? How does that create some protective bubble of innocence? What about when they fundraise at school? I always tell them exactly why they are dressing in polka dots or whatever and taking money into school.

I used to get very stressed about the concept of Father Christmas as a child. I stayed up all night once sweating because I had scratched somebody's. I was terrified that I would get no presents and I would have had to explain to everybody why. It was a threat, not a joyous, magical experience.

I would have found the idea of charity far more magical and happy, and I would have felt more secure with a mum who cared about the world instead of a bitter, hate-filled, consumed-with-envy one.

Alright this is getting deep.

somebody's car*

It's not that difficult to get past the every child lie.

"Some children don't get presents. Mummies and daddies send money to Santa so he can make and deliver the presents. But not all mummies and daddies have money. We can save up our pocket money and buy a present for a child who doesn't have one though."

Also works to explain why some classmates will get more than others.

I would have found the idea of charity far more magical and happy, and I would have felt more secure with a mum who cared about the world instead of a bitter, hate-filled, consumed-with-envy one.

That concept cannot even be grasped by a 4 year old - let alone comprehensively understood.

because I told them Santa is not a universal gift-giving force. I just can't do it though!

You can, you just didn't want to.

You burst the bubble of a 4 year old. Not just any bubble but the most special bubble of all.

Trot out all the high morals and ethical justification you like but this was mean and unnecessary. Plenty of us hate the consumerism of christmas but you still tread softly on a child's dreams.

Righto, well...there are other ways of going about not recreating your childhood than this OP. I feel for you though...that sounds pretty miserable.