To hate Santa?

[SilverSilverSilver]

... or at least the idea.

DS voiced how magical it was that every child in the world got presents on Christmas Day.

I told him that didn't happen. I told him that millions of children don't even have clean water to drink, let alone presents. DS is not even 5 but I couldn't let him believe that. It is so disrespectful to those poor children.

Every year I watch this avalanche of horrendous consumerism and my heart breaks for the millions with nothing. Absolutely nothing. I told DS that Saint Nicholas was a man who helped poor children a long time ago and we remember him by giving presents to other people. I told him we need to remember people who can't buy presents and help them get the things they need.

I waited for his heart to break but all he said was "So Santa just means giving presents?" and we made a list of ways to help the children who don't have presents, or food, or clean water, or safe beds.

I may well have ruined his childhood but since vast populations of the world don't even celebrate Christmas, I think he will be alright...

He's 4.

He really shouldn't be worrying about this stuff yet.

Yes you are taking life too seriously, I know there are a lot of bad things out there in the world and I firmly believe it is our duty to do what we can to change that but honestly, don't make your own child suffer for it (and I don't just mean the santa thing, I actually don't think it'd a huge deal, I grew up knowing Santa wasn't real).

Let him have joy and magic and wonder in childhood. He is 4. It isnt his job to worry about other children. It's his job to feel safe and warm and loved, to learn to use his imagination, to know that you as his mum make his own world safe for him to be in.

I'm not quite sure how you think you are doing that by burdening him with problems which are for adults, and as others said worrying him isn't helping feed another child.

Just be careful your urge to do good for all the children of the world does not mean you end up damaging your own.

Dear god that's harsh. My mum was as right-on as they come and had me out on demos and protests and marches from birth, pretty much, so I was well aware of the misfortune of others, but she still let me believe in Santa Clauss, FFS.

Op, my child is older than yours and heard about Ebola, it was on the news and I dont like exposing her to the news at all yet. But she heard and I told her a little bit about it and why they dont have drugs and its deeply shocked and upset her and to be honest I have made a huge mistake and its robbed her off her innocence. Its really affected her.

There is no need for my young DD to know about how cruel the world is and to what degree.

I think it would have been kinder to have simply made up shoe boxes for the millions of charities there are out there for poor all round the world...and also in this country, Barnados and so on...you could have said, FC does give all a gift but many dont have families to buy either so we will cover that ourselves.

I just feel burdening such young shoulders is not the way forward.

I told him Santa is a tradition, not a myth. He is based on a real person.

I would never tell a child to eat because there were starving children. How ridiculous. If it's already cooked needlessly, it is already wasted. Doesn't matter if you bin it or overeat instead. Waste comes from excessive purchase. What I would say don't whine for a 24-pack of fromage frais that will be rancid before you eat it.

Disney is painfully anti-feminist. How is building a sense of that miserable?

This is really fascinating!

Justify a cruel lie... Who is it cruel too, do you honestly think that you telling your child Santa does not exist has effected anyone's life but your own child's?
a box of rice doesn't magically float down to a starving person because a child in the uk says i know Santa isn't real.
i think you are missing the point. The world is a horrible and disgusting place, childhood should be a time of wonder. By destroying the second you have done nothing to stop the first.

You don't have to justify it.

The concept of 'the rest of the world' is simply not one that a child that age can comprehend, so why bother pissing all over their imagination and safe magical world?

They have years to learn about the realities of life when they are more able to understand the world.

You aren't lying. You just aren't telling them about how life is fucking cruel somedays. That's not a lesson they need to learn until they are older.

You can tell a 5 year old that they are fortunate without doing this and laying on the guilt trip.

Oh and santa IS real, even to a 36 year old, because the magic of santa is more than him being a living breathing person. Nor is Santa just about consumerism. Santa is the santa you make him...

Plenty of time to teach him that life can be utter shit for quite a high percentage of people in the world. He's still only a baby, let him have a bit of wonder and magic. He's got a lot of his life to come up against obstacles

My children understand that we give money to Santa and he has a budget for their presents

Santa gets their letters, makes the presents, wraps them and delivers them

I'm sure that my children don't believe any more (especially dd) but the boys at least have never said it to me

And I'm damned sure that ds1 (15) can't figure out how the presents turn up on Christmas Day as he has told me so

YANBU!
My DD is 4 and knows Santa is just a game. I don't lie to her about anything, although I might simplify things to help her understand, and I don't see why Santa is any different. She is given the option to 'play the Santa game' at Xmas and wants to. She knows she gets presents regardless of her behaviour and we ignore anyone who says 'Santa/the elves are watching', because I hope she wants to be a kind person for more noble reasons than to get presents. We love Christmas and really go all out for it. Lying about Santa just isn't a part of it.

Do like this quote

Agree with most of the posts except yours op Red your so right. .

Christmas and FC to me as a child wasn't about presents, dm was never that into them, she got me stuff, but not on any scale imaginable on here...but FC is/was her love and effort into making it special....making my childhood a little bit special in amongst all the horrid adult things going on in my life then, xmas was for me the child....magic and sparkle and mystery..a few years you live in a fairytale where magic and the impossible happens....

You know what OP? I think you're right - it is a crass, self indulgent injustice that we are party to. It's mind blowing that others should have so little when we have so much.

But you know what else? In our lifetime, it is the closest any of us ever get to believing...truly believing, that magic exists.
This belief is supported by our culture in a way that makes it totally plausible for kids to swallow, because they are innocent. It's totally captivating for them.

They have the rest of their lives to live in the real world. Why take that away?

I told him Santa is a tradition, not a myth. He is based on a real person.

Yes, I think we're all aware he's based on a real person. The Santa 'myth' refers to elves, reindeers, flying through the air, chimneys, ho ho ho etc.

You sound like Thomas Gradgrind from Hard Times 'Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else.'

Sheesh OP.There are some things four year olds should not be worrying about, and this is one if them
It's fine if you want to do the whole sanctimonious thing at Christmas, but you really shouldn't be burdening your son with it imo.

She knows she gets presents regardless of her behaviour and we ignore anyone who says 'Santa/the elves are watching', because I hope she wants to be a kind person for more noble reasons than to get presents.

why do people always quote this as though its a law in the land we have to follow if you want to do FC?

We do elf, our way, doesnt involve being watched for goodness, same with FC! we do it our way.

There's a famous NY Times editorial about this - a child wrote to them saying that her schoolmates had said Santa didn't exist. The answer is along the lines 'Santa exists, as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist'.

How is telling the child Santa doesn't exist ruining his life?

an excited young child musing in his little head over FC delivering presents being sat down to be told of the suffering and injustice and how to make a list to help them....is not fair on him.

you have to be really careful, I made a huge mistake the other day ...

Christ. I thought I was a scrooge. Bah humbug.

t our house Christmas is centred around Christian activities so none of that really involves believing in Santa

you could argue its the same lines though couldnt you, that story of baby jesus is a story too and not true? or much written about jesus is not true but based on real person?

Even then I love the story of the nativity...its also very magical.

I've done some aid work and IME it's not entirely true that very poor children don't get "Santa" I worked in Eastern Europe over christmas once in a compound attached to a hospital which housed children (orphans) with HIV/AIDS its was a horrific place but those kids still put their shoes outside the door for "Santa" and they got a very small present (from us) which they were delighted with and we sang carols and they ate a bit more than usual. Obviously they needed so much more than that but they were very excited. Not really sure what my point is but wanted to add that into the debate!

cheesecakemom if you read the thread you will see that the problem isn't that the OP has told her son that Santa doesn't exist it's that she's burdening a 4 year old with concepts of Third World poverty that he can't possibly fully understand.

NannyNim thank you, that is reassuring!
Timeforabiscuit yes it is purely the consumerism and the "every child" lie. I genuinely love Christmas. Love it. I just try and do as much as possible in a sustainable way and focus on the social aspects.

I know it sounds astringent but I do buy presents for the kids, we visit friends/family, stick to ancient decorations, have Christmas Eve around a fire toasting marshmallows, go to church, do volunteer work.

My children, or at least one, are genuinely not loved by their father. I am gutted at the idea that they would feel unloved by me because I told them Santa is not a universal gift-giving force. I just can't do it though!

We stick to the popular legend, but don't ramp it up any. They do that themselves. Ds1 figured it out at 6, so didn't believe for long...ds2 (6) and dd (5) both believe.

How cool would it be if there was magic? Like it was an actual thing? Well...for those few years in childhood it is! That's what I like about it.

Honestly, I think the santa thing will peter out in time. Kids will figure it out younger and younger till it ceases to be anything other than a nice idea. Probably not a bad thing.
But still... while we can...magic!