To go NC with MIL

[passthedouche]

This is a long story I'm afraid but the details are important I think. I have known my MIL since I was 13 (when DH and I were first dating), I am now 40, and we have always had a strained relationship. She is very passive-aggressive, and makes snidey underhand comments about me - everything from my looks, the way I parent, the way I run the house, how much work I do/DH does etc - that I just try to ignore. It is never outright criticism but very indirect and underhand. She also sulks with both me and DH, and we often have no clue why. She kinda gives you the silent treatment or starts blanking you. It is very weird and uncomfortable. I make a very big effort to make her feel welcome when she stays - in fact DH says I bend over backwards and am almost arse-kissy, but it doesn't help. We now live in different countries so she visits us for a week at a time about 3-4 times a year. She used to stay in our house, but I put a stop to that as it was too much pressure, so now she stays in a local B&B which is mildly better but still strained.

Things got more serious about 5 years ago, when my now 14yo DD was 9 yo. It started to become readily apparent that my DS (then 7) was the preferred child. She has other grandchildren, but she always talks about the boys more fondly. There was an incident during one of the visits at this time when she got annoyed with my DD (for not following one of her barked orders) and she 'sulked' with my DD. A time when she was alone with DD the treatment she usually reserved only for me was now being experienced by my DD - she said that granny was 'looking at her funny' (glaring), and wouldn't speak to her and would only acknowledge my DS. She kept saying to DD that she was only talking to DS because 'he does as I say', and 'he wouldn't tell tales to your mum'. I confronted her about this (the first time in my entire life) as although I had put up with years of her nonsense for my DH I was NOT going to allow her to treat DD like that. I had it out with her, she denied it all, accused DD of being a liar, me being hysterical and a liar too (as I had overheard some it), so I went NC with her for 3 years and refused to let her see the DC's as I felt she was toxic. DH was in bits about this and it broke my heart because he loves his DM and he was really hurting.

Fast forward to last year and my DD (now 13) asked to see her again and my DH was pushing for it too. We discussed it at length and she wanted to give her another chance and asked me to reconcile so I did. I swallowed my pride and said, for the kids sake, I thought it would be a good idea to start afresh. She never acknowledged any wrongdoing and we have had three visits since then and basically nothing has changed. My DD (now 14) doesn't really want any more to do with her and thinks she is awful. Same behaviour as before really. I never said anything to DD about what I think MIL thinks of me or my other children, but DD says that it is obvious that she prefers DS (13), hates me and is uninterested in my other two DD's (6 and 4). DD even asked me to promise I wouldn't let her look after our two younger DD's (which I never would). I agree it is pretty obvious that she does favour DS and he adores her. My other DD's adore her to, and at the moment they can't see that she favours DS but I am sure it is only a matter of time.

I have spoken to my DH countless times about his DM but he has never stood up for me or his DC's in this regard, and he never will. He thinks it is pointless and will get us nowhere. His view is that all MIL's and DIL's have issues and I am over-reacting and should just suck it up. He also doesn't think that her having an obvious favourite is a big deal. Am I being unreasonable because I think it IS a big deal and that I really don't want the DC's around this woman?

Mommybird is correct - there is a script to manipulators' behaviour. And if they feel they're losing their power, then their next step is usually an illness, although I'll differ with her at this point and suggest it is more likely to be her heart - cardiac events are much easier to fake, and cause a lot of immediate anxiety, plus there's the added "I don't need the stress, stress could cause me to have a heart attack" option. Cancer is a lot harder to keep going as an option.

I'm glad your DH is opening his mind and eyes to the seriousness of his mother's behaviour and its potential impact on your DC - and I hope that all his self-reflection leads to a change in the way she is dealt with.

Good luck!

Oh yes! Thumbwitch. Completely forgot about heart problems.
My MIL didn't really think about 'carrying it on' she had depression, cancer and a brain tumour all at the same time.

Of course, she's fine now.

UPDATE: I said to DH that I was going NC with MIL and she would not be coming to the house. Any DC who wanted to see her could with his supervision, under the promise that she is watched like a hawk and they are protected from any bad behaviour. I also said that I would be talking to the older DCs about the plan. He reluctantly agreed.

I spoke to my DD14 alone about why she was giving a different version to her DF than to me. She started to cry (unlike her) and was very distressed saying that she feels so hurt that granny doesn't like her, that it still hurts so much, but she doesn't want DH to lose his DM 'because of her'. She also says she knows DH won't stand up for her anyway and things will get worse. It was very, very sad. I reassured her that none of this is in any way her fault, and that granny is responsible 100% for this, no-one else. I also told her that I can't guarantee DH is going to stand up to her, because he finds it so hard, but I will talk to him again.

I told him all of this, and he is going to speak with her. My fear is that he is simply not capable (due to FOG) to defend any of his kids. He has done some talking and a little reading about this but now he has gone quiet and is wanting it all to go away. I don't want to push though. I feel unsure what to do now.

That sounds like progress, PTD. Good job on choosing NC for yourself and strict supervision of the DC when they see her.

You can't push your DH to the realisation that is lurking in his unconscious mind though - it'll be behind a big wall that he probably doesn't want to take down yet (if ever). His reading might have knocked a couple of random bricks out, just enough to give a glimpse of the truth - and that might have frightened him too much to go any further.

Your DD is of an age where she doesn't need to see her grandmother if she doesn't want to - or only infrequently if she feels she ought to. So give her the permission she needs to choose whether or not to see the woman. And tell DH that it has to be her decision, as it is her who is affected and he can't stand up for her. (That might push him to be more proactive on the "standing up for her" front, without you actually pushing him, iyswim)

Who is your DH going to speak to, your DD or his mother? that bit wasn't clear, sorry.

I agree woth Thumb. It is progress, and that first step is a very very big one. It will take time for dh to come to terms with that initial tiny move forward, as the landscape changes utterly. He may never get any further; you understand that it is very painful for him, and you are very kind. So long as he understands that his failure to protect his dc means that they have to be free to make their own decisions without coercion or guilt tripping, then it may be enough.

Good luck to you all

At the very least, your dd knows that she has you on her side, fiercely defending her against any negativity. That means a lot.

It's sad that a young girl has to examine herself to establish why her granny might take against her so.

It's also very sad that your dh's instinct isn't to instantly set up a protective wall around her when his mother is around.

I learn a lot from MN. Mostly about how not to behave!

thumbwitch he is going to speak with DD and reassure her that she can be totally honest with him. Sorry that wasn't clear.

No that's ok, I just couldn't tell which it was. I hope it works and she does feel able to be more honest with him in the future :)

This is sad, the MIL will turn on the younger children when they get a bit older - my gran did this, she only wanted people she could control and was vile to anyone who stood up to her or refused to do her bidding.

It would be worth getting you eldest to read toxic parents book - so she can understand her father's conditioning and her gran's control issues. Then she will realise none of this is her fault.

The thing to remember about people like your MIL is:
They turn everything into a fight that they must win
They will use anything as ammunition as they must have a fight so effectively you can never do anything right
They keep people around so they can fight with them or dominate them to prove their superiority
They are incapable of giving or receiving love
They will never change

Your DH has been in it so long he can't even question what she does, (it's currently a hot psychological topic of when people are conditioned to collude in their own abuse and can't even see they need to disengage) - it is very common for partners who come into an abusive/dysfunctional family to point out these things and get blanked or treated badly. Happened to my mum and I really wished she had gone NC with my gran, would have saved us all from her poison.

YANBU

Your husband needs to take the lead and tell MIL - he is letting you and your daughters down by being so passive - yes he cannot change MIL behaviour but perhaps he can chnage his own such that MIL feels a bit less comfortable in getting away with this sort of bad behaviour

Practically if your oldest DD has no interest in seeing her and nor do you - but your DS and youngest DDs do then could your husband take them to see her - therefore leaving him with the problem rather than him shoving it off on to you, - then you and oldest DD have a bloody good time whilst he is away

also don't bend over backwards for people who are rude or ungrateful as this tends to just confirm their sense of entitlement and continues what they believe of as "their right " to behave badly

I agree being part of an adult is trying to work things through - but you have tried that you have also raised it wih your husband as has your daughter - is your husband or MIL behaving like an adult - no - so please don't feel guilty -

Have been following your thread and just wanted to say good luck to you, and your husband. You've made a difficult but wise decision, your daughter will be strengthened by it.

It is the start on a difficult path for all of you but one that will ultimately, I hope, lead to a much healthier set of relationships.

Sounds to me like the MIL is fixed in her ways and probably enjoys this type of behaviour and the havoc it causes; it has been a pattern with her for years, so I don't think you will achieve anything by talking to her.

I can see 2 options.

1. You tolerate how she behaves and put it down as useful experience for the kids. A friend of mine has an abusive ex who treats their DG very badly, but she has decided that in the long run, kids need to learn for themselves who to like and trust. Being related to the bad person doesn't change that basic fact.
2. You decide that there is enough trouble in the world without having to invite it into your home. In this case, cutting off contact is justified.

I chose option 2 when dealing with my dad who was a bully, mentally and physically. He has caused me more grief and pain and than all the rest put together. It changed when he started to play mind games with my kids and I saw DS5 sitting on the sofa crying his eyes out over something my dad had done. I decided that second that his toxic behaviour was not going to carry on through the next generation and stopped all contact. That was 8 years ago and I do not regret it. We didn't say anything to the kids to start with, but when they began to ask questions, we have told them the truth about why we have no contact.

One thing that needs sorting out immediately is that your DH should talk to DD14 about her belief that he won't stand up for her. That is one of the saddest things I have read. Fortunately, children are more forgiving than we are, so it is recoverable.

Good luck - difficult situation but your will find a solution that works for you if it you and DH keep talking.