To go NC with MIL

[passthedouche]

This is a long story I'm afraid but the details are important I think. I have known my MIL since I was 13 (when DH and I were first dating), I am now 40, and we have always had a strained relationship. She is very passive-aggressive, and makes snidey underhand comments about me - everything from my looks, the way I parent, the way I run the house, how much work I do/DH does etc - that I just try to ignore. It is never outright criticism but very indirect and underhand. She also sulks with both me and DH, and we often have no clue why. She kinda gives you the silent treatment or starts blanking you. It is very weird and uncomfortable. I make a very big effort to make her feel welcome when she stays - in fact DH says I bend over backwards and am almost arse-kissy, but it doesn't help. We now live in different countries so she visits us for a week at a time about 3-4 times a year. She used to stay in our house, but I put a stop to that as it was too much pressure, so now she stays in a local B&B which is mildly better but still strained.

Things got more serious about 5 years ago, when my now 14yo DD was 9 yo. It started to become readily apparent that my DS (then 7) was the preferred child. She has other grandchildren, but she always talks about the boys more fondly. There was an incident during one of the visits at this time when she got annoyed with my DD (for not following one of her barked orders) and she 'sulked' with my DD. A time when she was alone with DD the treatment she usually reserved only for me was now being experienced by my DD - she said that granny was 'looking at her funny' (glaring), and wouldn't speak to her and would only acknowledge my DS. She kept saying to DD that she was only talking to DS because 'he does as I say', and 'he wouldn't tell tales to your mum'. I confronted her about this (the first time in my entire life) as although I had put up with years of her nonsense for my DH I was NOT going to allow her to treat DD like that. I had it out with her, she denied it all, accused DD of being a liar, me being hysterical and a liar too (as I had overheard some it), so I went NC with her for 3 years and refused to let her see the DC's as I felt she was toxic. DH was in bits about this and it broke my heart because he loves his DM and he was really hurting.

Fast forward to last year and my DD (now 13) asked to see her again and my DH was pushing for it too. We discussed it at length and she wanted to give her another chance and asked me to reconcile so I did. I swallowed my pride and said, for the kids sake, I thought it would be a good idea to start afresh. She never acknowledged any wrongdoing and we have had three visits since then and basically nothing has changed. My DD (now 14) doesn't really want any more to do with her and thinks she is awful. Same behaviour as before really. I never said anything to DD about what I think MIL thinks of me or my other children, but DD says that it is obvious that she prefers DS (13), hates me and is uninterested in my other two DD's (6 and 4). DD even asked me to promise I wouldn't let her look after our two younger DD's (which I never would). I agree it is pretty obvious that she does favour DS and he adores her. My other DD's adore her to, and at the moment they can't see that she favours DS but I am sure it is only a matter of time.

I have spoken to my DH countless times about his DM but he has never stood up for me or his DC's in this regard, and he never will. He thinks it is pointless and will get us nowhere. His view is that all MIL's and DIL's have issues and I am over-reacting and should just suck it up. He also doesn't think that her having an obvious favourite is a big deal. Am I being unreasonable because I think it IS a big deal and that I really don't want the DC's around this woman?

My mother's best friend has dine this with one of her grandsons. Even said whilst the first granddaughter (who was grandchild 5) was on her lap aged 3 that she didn't think she would have coped if there hadn't been a boy first. Her favouritism is obvious to all and hurtful to the other 7 grandchildren. The only people who don't think it is an issue are her and grandson she favours. The OPs DH can't see it as an issue because he was never on the outside of it.

He had to make the first move to resume contact. My DH was 7 when this happened and it had a MASSIVE affect on him. He is totally scared of any confrontation with her because he knows that she would go NC in a heartbeat if she was challenged on anything.

So he does know the extent of the damage it does.

But why are both your DH and his brother so bothered about being NC? What on earth would be the loss?

IMO it is as bad for your son as it is for your DD. He is learning that it is ok for someone to be horrible to someone you love and that everyone accepts it as that person can be nice sometimes.

I think if it were me I would make an agreement with DH that I would only be accepting of her visiting on the following terms

1. your kids only meet when you are present. He can meet her any time he wants without them.

2. the first comment she makes you will reply and will not hold back and then you and ALL the children will leave for that visit/day and this will happen every time until she can behave.

3. you will both talk to the children about this and be clear as to what will happen and that it is unacceptable to treat someone that way and that it is important for the rest of us to be supportive and not allow someone we love to be treated poorly. He or the both of you will talk to his mother about it. I suggest email so it is written.

We had trouble with my ILs. DH finally manned up and wrote to them saying that because he loved everyone and wanted to be able to enjoy spending time together that this is how it would go from now on. Then he explained that if they could agree then we would love to see them on XYZ. They agreed that they would rather have a calmer time with us.

She sounds thoroughly toxic and horrid. Certainly created issues for you DH and his brother which you don't want fir your dc. I woukd certainly distance and go NC if necessary.

"The last time I did that she packed her things and left half way through her trip."

I would continue to do it every time.

If she chooses to leave, that's her problem.

I just spoke to DH and he still feels that, on balance, the kids are getting something out of her visiting. That the good outweighs the bad. He thinks it is teaching the kids tolerance, and that they are learning about what bad communication is and how not to do it by being around her. He also thinks that because we only see her a few times a year it is doing no harm, although he agrees it would if she lived near us.

He sees her behaviour as a bit nutty and misogynistic but not harmful as I do, and that I am making a mountain out of a molehill. I tried to put over my point again but I just end up getting angry/upset. Because he knows I don't like her I think he thinks this is coming from spite, rather than genuine concern for my DC, which really hurts me that he could think that. My motherly instincts just scream at me that I don't want this woman around my DCs - any of them - and I don't think I should ignore that.

The reason why DH wouldn't want to go NC is because she is really lovely and sweet to him - very kind, loving and generous - as she is with my DS. But it is VERY conditional. He is not allowed in any way to challenge, discuss, or confront her about anything. My DS during the last visit said he didn't like the way she was talking to him, that she was being too bossy and not being respectful. She then gave him the sulky silent treatment and he was very confused about what the hell was going on. In our family we just don't do that - we discuss and express our emotions if we have them we don't sulk or go silent - and my poor DS was totally . So he behaviour already affects him.

I think, as a starting point, your 14 year old DD should be supported to refuse to see her. She is old enough to make up her own mind, has repeatedly told DH how she feels and should be allowed. Your DS needs to be told very, very clearly that her behaviour is unacceptable, but that she is family. Your younger DDs should only see her for very short, brisk supervised bursts. A quick coffee or short walk.

You need to log everything. Write it down. Take the emotion out. Sit down with DH after a visit and show him exactly what she has said.

I would also make it very clear to her that your DD has chosen NC. You are supporting her and will make that decision on behalf of your other children if she does not behave.

Give her one chance on every occasion. One bad comment and you leave. Only be somewhere you can escape from. Do not have her in your home - your DD is there and chooses not to see her. If in a cafe, order and pay so you can leave at a moment's notice.

Treat her like a toddler. If she can't play nicely, she can't play.

And get your DH some counselling. He is very wrong but it is clear why he is wrong.

Passthedouche - ask your dh what he would do if his mum treated one of his children the way she treated his brother. Ask him where he thinks the line is - how much nasty treatment should his children have to endure before he will step up and protect them.

Doe he think that, on balance, his brother 'got something' out of his childhood?

After your story of her treatment of your BIL, there is no way I would let her have contact with my children without me being there and supervising.

She sulks and goes silent because she gets her way. If you detach every time she does that by leaving it will take the wind out of her sails.

I have a family member who does that and for years we have been told to apologise because you have "upset X" and to keep the peace. I'm no longer doing it. I am just leaving. X's husband tried to get me to apologise so we could have a nice visit. I refused. X was the one to apologise and make nice but it took a couple of days. General gobsmackedness around by everyone else. I made other plans while X sulked by themselves. Sulking doesn't work well if you don't have an audience.

You could give him conditions of continuing contact - no time alone with dc and mil, leave as soon as she does something. If he doesn't want to talk to his mum about her behaviour then he is choosing not to give her a chance to change and it is v likely that she will do something and so your leaving with the dc and telling her what she has done and why you are leaving will probably bring it to a head or at least a row or sulking period. If he wants to maintain contact then you have the right to do so but no longer accept her behaviour - and that will teach the dc about social boundaries, how to assert them and that you do not have to accept bad behaviour but to do so in a calm and dignified manner rather than acting like a 3year old in an old woman's body.

I would favour the approach suggested by Rose, Maddening and Selfconfessed.

One of my gms made it very clear that she favoured one of my siblings, and that she favoured some of our cousins over all of us. It made me very distrustful of her and we were never close. My other gm was fabulous, 15 grandchildren, not a favourite amongst us, we all adored her and I still miss her more than 20 yrs after she died.

As others have said, your dh cannot see what is happening because he's on the other side of the fence. He's terrified that she'll kick him to the kerb, and it's such a strong fear that he can't stand up for you and your dc. Trust me I know, as I'm on your side of the fence, and my dp is so far over he's in another bloody field! (sorry that got a bit metaphorical !).

You can't change what happened to your husband during his childhood, neither can he, and he can't (at the moment) see his mother's behaviour for what it is. But you can see it, and you're making sure that your children don't end up with any of the feelings and memories caused by their gm that your dh has to live with.

I feel sorry for your dh, but I feel just as sorry for you and your dc.

"For example, her eldest DS at 13 said he wanted to go out with girlfriend she said 'no if you leave then you aren't coming back' usual teenage/mum row but he left and she followed through. He told me he went back every day for a week banging on the door and begging her to let him in but she ignored him. He had to move in to his girlfriends house and she went NC with him for 7 years. Even ignored him in the street years later."

Did I read that right? She threw a THIRTEEN YEAR OLD out? How was this woman not jailed? How can your husband possibly not see her for the total psycho that she is?

Not only did she throw him out, she still talks about now the he left her. On the day he tried to rekindle the relationship (he had just become a father and invited her around to see her new baby gd) he said sorry and she 'forgave him for leaving her'. She is totally screwy.

She is truly toxic throwing a chikd out into the street. Years later she still has a hold on him! That needs to be broken. Nit allow her in your home, so you cannot escape! Meet her outside the home, pub, restaurant, her B&B. Support your dd to not see her, and others too. She is messing them up and behaving like a very young child. She sounds like a nadty spiteful and venomous woman. No her behaviour should not be dismissed or tolerated, that how continues, because it hasent had to be stopped. Your DH brother apologising years later for leaving, when she kicked him out is very telling. You don't want that happening to your children. If she starts messing with the rest of them, no thank you! Thank goodness you don't see her much. But 3/4 times a year fir a week is a lot as well.

Toxic as hell. This behaviour is damaging to all of your children. It can also lead to resentment between the children. I think it is perfectly reasonable to break off contact as she is bringing nothing positive to anyone's life.
My Dads mum did this with my cousins. She used to tell us how great they were and ignored our achievements. It made us resent that side of the family. When she died my Dad only went to the funeral out of obligation and the cousins and my aunt were never close to her even though she worshipped them. Your MIL will end up the same.

This is quite possibly the worst MIL thread I have seen on here. To cast out a thirteen year old child? She should have been jailed. What do you think of getting your husband to read this and see what we think?

DC come first, DH would never hear the end of it. I would not allow any relative to treat one sibling better than the other.

The only way to deal with someone like this is to go N/C

She did what?!!!!!!

No way would she have the opportunity to behave like this to my dc. As others have suggested, call her out on it every single time and explain to the children why.

What a nasty thing to do

You need to kick this woman to the kerb.

She brings nothing positive to your family life.

Even her adoration of your son means he will get a ridiculous elevated sense of himself.

I really think you owe it to your dcs to not let her near them.

She is mad. Utterly mad.

This is passthedouche DH. I have read the whole thread and I appreciate everyone taking the time to help us with this issue. For clarity, I want to make the following points.

1. 95% of the time my DM is loving, sweet, kind and very generous to ALL her GC. I acknowledge that the other 5% of the time she can be manipulative, sneaky, cruel and somewhat untrustworthy. I think the good far and away, outweighs the bad though.

1. She did do some awful things in the past to my DB's, this is true, but I don't want to continue to judge her - or anyone - for their past mistakes. However, I am fully aware of what she is capable of.

1. With the exception of my eldest DD, my other children all adore their GM and she adores them.

1. My eldest is a teen and no she doesn't much respect her GM, but then a lot of teens don't. And she also feels that the good outweighs the bad as long as none of the DCs are left alone with her or for long periods.

1. She is a difficult woman, but I would prefer to have empathy and understanding and tolerance for people who aren't 'perfect' and I want to pass this onto my children.

1. I acknowledge that, no matter what I or my DW do, she will NEVER change. In fact, I know that if I confront her about how my DD feels about the favouritism towards her DB, she will ultimately 'punish' DD by going cold on her.

1. I am also fully aware that a lot of these problems are down to me. In my early marriage I should have drawn lines then, but at 23 I didn't have the maturity.

Ptd's dh - ten years ago I could have written your mail. Accepting people and loving them as they are, accepting the bad because the good outweighs it, adoring them really and the emotionally abusive bit is only a little now and then.... That's the distorted thinking of an abused child who daren't believe they deserve or have a right to better, who are grateful for the good bits and try to forget the bad bits, no boundaries, are scared to anger or hurt or distress the one who is unpredictable and must be protected and placated.

Except they were the adult, not you. It sounds such a kind stance, but it's rooted in fear and sadness.

why do people have favs I really do not get it

PTD DH - there is a long running series of threads in the Relationships section called "But we took you to stately homes" which is for people who have had difficult and abusive parents. I think you should read them. Your mother was and continues to be emotionally abusive towards you, your siblings and is now moving on to your spouse and children. It doesn't seem that bad to you because you have been conditioned to see it as normal and to spend a lot of time and energy making sure that your mother is appeased. Your mother's behaviour is not normal. It is abusive. It is profoundly unfair and damaging to your children. The bad is so bad that it is in no way outweighed by the good.
It's no longer your job to protect your mother from herself. It's time to protect your children from your mother's toxic influence.