To go NC with MIL

[passthedouche]

This is a long story I'm afraid but the details are important I think. I have known my MIL since I was 13 (when DH and I were first dating), I am now 40, and we have always had a strained relationship. She is very passive-aggressive, and makes snidey underhand comments about me - everything from my looks, the way I parent, the way I run the house, how much work I do/DH does etc - that I just try to ignore. It is never outright criticism but very indirect and underhand. She also sulks with both me and DH, and we often have no clue why. She kinda gives you the silent treatment or starts blanking you. It is very weird and uncomfortable. I make a very big effort to make her feel welcome when she stays - in fact DH says I bend over backwards and am almost arse-kissy, but it doesn't help. We now live in different countries so she visits us for a week at a time about 3-4 times a year. She used to stay in our house, but I put a stop to that as it was too much pressure, so now she stays in a local B&B which is mildly better but still strained.

Things got more serious about 5 years ago, when my now 14yo DD was 9 yo. It started to become readily apparent that my DS (then 7) was the preferred child. She has other grandchildren, but she always talks about the boys more fondly. There was an incident during one of the visits at this time when she got annoyed with my DD (for not following one of her barked orders) and she 'sulked' with my DD. A time when she was alone with DD the treatment she usually reserved only for me was now being experienced by my DD - she said that granny was 'looking at her funny' (glaring), and wouldn't speak to her and would only acknowledge my DS. She kept saying to DD that she was only talking to DS because 'he does as I say', and 'he wouldn't tell tales to your mum'. I confronted her about this (the first time in my entire life) as although I had put up with years of her nonsense for my DH I was NOT going to allow her to treat DD like that. I had it out with her, she denied it all, accused DD of being a liar, me being hysterical and a liar too (as I had overheard some it), so I went NC with her for 3 years and refused to let her see the DC's as I felt she was toxic. DH was in bits about this and it broke my heart because he loves his DM and he was really hurting.

Fast forward to last year and my DD (now 13) asked to see her again and my DH was pushing for it too. We discussed it at length and she wanted to give her another chance and asked me to reconcile so I did. I swallowed my pride and said, for the kids sake, I thought it would be a good idea to start afresh. She never acknowledged any wrongdoing and we have had three visits since then and basically nothing has changed. My DD (now 14) doesn't really want any more to do with her and thinks she is awful. Same behaviour as before really. I never said anything to DD about what I think MIL thinks of me or my other children, but DD says that it is obvious that she prefers DS (13), hates me and is uninterested in my other two DD's (6 and 4). DD even asked me to promise I wouldn't let her look after our two younger DD's (which I never would). I agree it is pretty obvious that she does favour DS and he adores her. My other DD's adore her to, and at the moment they can't see that she favours DS but I am sure it is only a matter of time.

I have spoken to my DH countless times about his DM but he has never stood up for me or his DC's in this regard, and he never will. He thinks it is pointless and will get us nowhere. His view is that all MIL's and DIL's have issues and I am over-reacting and should just suck it up. He also doesn't think that her having an obvious favourite is a big deal. Am I being unreasonable because I think it IS a big deal and that I really don't want the DC's around this woman?

Whatever not if they are being emotionally abused by their grandma, she has every right to protect them as their father is not looking out for them. In her postion I would certainly keep the girls away from her if she is treating them badly.

*Aeroflot" What do you mean by "every right". Do you think that legally the mother's opinion regarding who her children can and can see overrides the father's?

Yes if they are being treated like that, and are being emotionally abused. In this case they are. Whatever, if your children were being treated badly by your parents or in laws wouldent you do all you could to protect them. I see day in day out on Mumsnet, Mothers watching their dc being emotionally abused and neglected during contact with their father, and trying to maintain this relationship, but watching the fathers hurt their children at the same time. At the end they disengage from contact, unless its court ordered and let their dc decide.

Aeroflot- The mother thinks they are being emotionally abused but the father does not. He has lived with the children all their lives and I am sure that legally he has as much right to decide on what is right for his children including who they don't see as the mother.

I disagree tbh, it sounds as though his judgement is clouded being the favoured one, he cannot see what is going on. Its op right to do all she can to protect her children from harm.

Aeroflotgirl Whether or not you think his judgement is being clouded is irrelevant. Unless a court decides that the father's judgement is incorrect then legally he has as many rights as the mother.

DH cant see it because he has never been victim to the worst of it and he's conditioned to accept the rest, he's grown up like that, so for him its normal, for the OP its not normal and her oldest has already worked it out for herself.

DH needs to open his eyes, because he is at risk of damaging the relationship with his DDs' because in time, they will see him as someone they cant emotionally rely on.

She's toxic. This is clearly emotional abuse and the OP's DH is minimising what she is doing. Whether or not he's the favoured one, his view is clouded by FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

If the OP's DCs continue to have any contact with their GM unless she is reined in, they will be damaged too—the favoured grandson as well as the DDs.

OP, it might help you to do some reading about toxic parents.

Whether or not you think his judgement is being clouded is irrelevant. Unless a court decides that the father's judgement is incorrect then legally he has as many rights as the mother.

Maybe he has. But it would be a cold day in hell before I would let that stop me protecting my children.

'I have spoken to my DH countless times about his DM but he has never stood up for me or his DC's in this regard, and he never will. He thinks it is pointless and will get us nowhere. His view is that all MIL's and DIL's have issues and I am over-reacting and should just suck it up. He also doesn't think that her having an obvious favourite is a big deal.'
The father knows there is a problem but refuses to acknowledge it ... regardless of what the OP thinks. If he knows and still does nothing he is facilitating his mothers actions against his children.
OP go back to NC for your childrens' sakes!

whatever

Would you ignore one of your children being abused because the other parent thought it was acceptable or would you try and prevent it?

My sisters now ex husband prior to their separation obtained a court order preventing her from taking the children to their grandmothers without supervision, I disliked the man intensely but that one action was enough to change my mind. He was prepared to protect his child and go to extremes to do so when my sister was being blinkered and a piss poor parent.

Exactly socks and nanny your first priority as a parent is to protect your child, not allow that other parents to support the emotional abuse or to be an inactive observer and not do anything about it. That is right, if as a parent, the other parent was doing nothing about their child being mistreated or abused, it would be neglectful to stand by and do nothing.

Abuse? Really? This isn't abuse, it's a rather unpleasant old lady that everyone puts up with and rolls their eyes at, who doesn't know one? This isn't abuse.

Would you ignore one of your children being abused because the other parent thought it was acceptable or would you try and prevent it?

Of course I wouldn't ignore it. I would do everything I could to persuade the other parent that it wasn't acceptable. If that didn't work though only the courts could intervene. In the situation described by the OP I'm not sure that they would.

Even if you are right, saltnpepa, why should children put up with a rather unpleasant old lady making them unhappy? No loving grandmother would do that to her grandchildren on purpose, and no-one should condone or enable it - which is what passthedouche's dh is doing.

OP - please tell your husband that this sort of behaviour is NOT what always happens between a mother and her daughter in law. I have a wonderful relationship with my MIL - she has always been there for me, loves me, cares for me, and has bollocked dh on my behalf on a couple of occasions when she felt it was necessary. I will grieve almost as much as dh and his brother when she passes on any day now (bastard cancer).

It's emotional abuse, treating one sibling more favourably than another. Ignoring the girls and giving time attention and love to the son. Don't undersestimate the impact this can have later on, many Mumsnetters have been treated similar always by their grandparents, and it has affected them in adulthood.

Or rather nasty spiteful behaviour,which I would not want any of my dc to experience, especially from their gran.

I agree, Aeroflotgirl - it doesn't matter what people choose to call the behaviour, it is not the sort of treatment that parents should allow their children, or some of their children! to suffer at anyone's hands.

Surely, the boys realise that they are favourites and it makes them think that men are more important than girls. This perpetuates the stereotypes.

I bet the two younger girls are noticing, but are not wise to it like the 14 year old. Mabey they are trying to please gran in the hope she might like them more!

Thanks so much everyone for all of your replies. I really appreciate it and I am taking them all in and really thinking about my next move.

I would also add that, although she does favour boys, she is also very manipulative of them too I think, and this worries me deeply for my DS. I certainly believe DH is affected by her parenting because, early in our marriage, he did think it was normal to withhold affection, and give the silent treatment for days when he was cross - he did this with the DC's in the early days too until I pointed out how screwed up that was. He now thinks how she behaved when he was young wasn't good, he says he hated the way he felt 'shamed' a lot. He also hated the way his brothers were treated because if anyone - of any sex - disagrees with her or falls out of line she goes NC. For example, her eldest DS at 13 said he wanted to go out with girlfriend she said 'no if you leave then you aren't coming back' - usual teenage/mum row - but he left and she followed through. He told me he went back every day for a week banging on the door and begging her to let him in but she ignored him. He had to move in to his girlfriends house and she went NC with him for 7 years. Even ignored him in the street years later. He had to make the first move to resume contact. My DH was 7 when this happened and it had a MASSIVE affect on him. He is totally scared of any confrontation with her because he knows that she would go NC in a heartbeat if she was challenged on anything.

would it be that bad of she did op?

Your DH isn't in a position to know the impact this situation is having on his daughters because he (a) hasn't been in the position, (b) probably hasn't seen much of the behaviour, (c) is trying to keep things steady by minimising the whole thing, which will be affecting his perception. Although it would be lovely if your older DD had the chance to see you handling a difficult woman graciously and firmly without walking away, that might simply be too difficult for you. Four visits a year of a week each is quite a lot and it would probably become more difficult over time as you confronted her, not less. I also don't think it would be great for your DD to see you and your DH openly conflicted over this issue. He needs to talk to you seriously about what the options are and how the whole family feel about each option. At the end of the day, family is important but we also don't allow bullying in our culture - so family relationships have to be free of bullying. I would have been deeply wounded if my gran had slagged me off to my brother - especially if he had allowed it to influence him, which would have been likely as he loves my gran. It's bullying to talk about people behind their backs, to criticise ruthlessly, to turn children against each other, to treat some people like family and others not, to encourage children to keep information from their parents. For this behaviour to come from within the family is particularly damaging as it compromises the sense of family security that is so important in a child's life. Your DH needs to acknowledge these points, even if you don't agree about what to do about it. There are certainly ways you could cut down on visits and make exposure to your MIL optional for different family members. You could also make sure visits with the children are supervised and elicit a guarantee from your DH that he will address comments that are bitchy and divisive. My DH and I did end up becoming estranged from his parents and it was definitely not his idea. But it was a very complicated issue - in your situation, it would have been as if your MIL was making negative comments about you to your DH and he was believing them and becoming angry also. In that situation we felt it was in our DD's interests to have parents who were actually together over being in contact with her grandparents. I don't think anyone on this board can tell you if it's reasonable because it's so subjective and your partner's perspective is the one that matters. But try and thrash out something you both agree on and put a united front on. IMO, tension between the two of you will be more stressful for your DD than anything her gran could say.

All girls in my family apart from my DS and he is not the favoured one but then again neither is my DD. Funnily enough the DD of the favourite daughter is.

Have never said anything in front of my DC but my DS has said for years that GPs hate him (have to say that is dramatic and it's more that they don't know how to relate to boys) but my DD often says who the favourite daughter and grandaughter is and it ain't us.

Unfortunately ILs are no longer here and we miss them terribly. Never got stressed about visiting them

OP, I think it is different from a scenario that was mentioned earlier, with the nasty aunt.
Behind closed doors the family can talk about that aunt and laugh and make clear her behaviour is out of order.

In your house you are the only adult who sees her behaviour for what it is, there is no united front and discussions about it.

My mum always favoured my brother (I also have a sister), and out of her 7 grandchildren, his child is the golden grandchild. I have reduced contact to once a year, because I don't want my youngest (who is the same age as GG) to be brushed off and everything she does ignored.

I have given up commenting on it, it is utterly pointless. My youngest didn't even get a call on her birthday today, she's been forgotten again.

OP I would go NC again, it will drive a wedge between your ds and his sisters. She sounds awful.
I feel sorry for you, and know what it's like as I have a dh who will never say anything about his mum's behaviour, even when she behaved totally vile in regards to another family member. It is the same, it won't change her, she is how she is... makes my blood boil. I just hope I'll never be on the receiving end of her hateful outbursts, as I know he would not stand up to her.