To go NC with MIL

[passthedouche]

This is a long story I'm afraid but the details are important I think. I have known my MIL since I was 13 (when DH and I were first dating), I am now 40, and we have always had a strained relationship. She is very passive-aggressive, and makes snidey underhand comments about me - everything from my looks, the way I parent, the way I run the house, how much work I do/DH does etc - that I just try to ignore. It is never outright criticism but very indirect and underhand. She also sulks with both me and DH, and we often have no clue why. She kinda gives you the silent treatment or starts blanking you. It is very weird and uncomfortable. I make a very big effort to make her feel welcome when she stays - in fact DH says I bend over backwards and am almost arse-kissy, but it doesn't help. We now live in different countries so she visits us for a week at a time about 3-4 times a year. She used to stay in our house, but I put a stop to that as it was too much pressure, so now she stays in a local B&B which is mildly better but still strained.

Things got more serious about 5 years ago, when my now 14yo DD was 9 yo. It started to become readily apparent that my DS (then 7) was the preferred child. She has other grandchildren, but she always talks about the boys more fondly. There was an incident during one of the visits at this time when she got annoyed with my DD (for not following one of her barked orders) and she 'sulked' with my DD. A time when she was alone with DD the treatment she usually reserved only for me was now being experienced by my DD - she said that granny was 'looking at her funny' (glaring), and wouldn't speak to her and would only acknowledge my DS. She kept saying to DD that she was only talking to DS because 'he does as I say', and 'he wouldn't tell tales to your mum'. I confronted her about this (the first time in my entire life) as although I had put up with years of her nonsense for my DH I was NOT going to allow her to treat DD like that. I had it out with her, she denied it all, accused DD of being a liar, me being hysterical and a liar too (as I had overheard some it), so I went NC with her for 3 years and refused to let her see the DC's as I felt she was toxic. DH was in bits about this and it broke my heart because he loves his DM and he was really hurting.

Fast forward to last year and my DD (now 13) asked to see her again and my DH was pushing for it too. We discussed it at length and she wanted to give her another chance and asked me to reconcile so I did. I swallowed my pride and said, for the kids sake, I thought it would be a good idea to start afresh. She never acknowledged any wrongdoing and we have had three visits since then and basically nothing has changed. My DD (now 14) doesn't really want any more to do with her and thinks she is awful. Same behaviour as before really. I never said anything to DD about what I think MIL thinks of me or my other children, but DD says that it is obvious that she prefers DS (13), hates me and is uninterested in my other two DD's (6 and 4). DD even asked me to promise I wouldn't let her look after our two younger DD's (which I never would). I agree it is pretty obvious that she does favour DS and he adores her. My other DD's adore her to, and at the moment they can't see that she favours DS but I am sure it is only a matter of time.

I have spoken to my DH countless times about his DM but he has never stood up for me or his DC's in this regard, and he never will. He thinks it is pointless and will get us nowhere. His view is that all MIL's and DIL's have issues and I am over-reacting and should just suck it up. He also doesn't think that her having an obvious favourite is a big deal. Am I being unreasonable because I think it IS a big deal and that I really don't want the DC's around this woman?

Oh I see they want to charge for this. Thought it was free. Sorry

Aeroflot and Thumbwitch, she died when I was still a minor. She left some money to one brother "for his education" which wasn't actually enough to pay for one term's rent at Uni. She left everything else (including her flat) to some woman she'd not spoken to for over 20 years. She was completely idiotic imo, a mean and nasty woman. OK probably borne of insecurity but mean and nasty regrdless of where it came from.

I was a bit lonely without my brothers in the holidays, but I did get to do a lot of things I wouldn't have done otherwise, and was very very close to my other gm. I didn't mind that much. Nevertheless, I do see that back in the 60s when this was happening, that for my parents to refuse to allow such favouritism was not so easy as it is now (easy is the wrong word; socially acceptable?) so they did what they could. For that reason, I don't think they did the wrong thing.

I think the fact that there are 3 girls in this family will help a lot as they can form a sub-group, as it were, rather than one being left out. The trouble atm is that the oldest dd is on her own out in the cold. So I think that if this continues then op and her dh will have to do extra for her to compensate.

That is sad Jux, yes I guess your right, 50 years ago It wasnent so easy to make a stand. We seem to be more assertive now, whereas in the past one would say nothing to keep the peace.

This is OP DH. Even my 14 year old DD believes her DM is over-reacting!
My DM gives my DS greater attention due to him having Aspergers, ADHD, ASD and CAPD.....he struggles and she can see it. My daughter is intelligent, confident and has masses of friends and requires greater independance from her parents and her GM.

Why don't you let a third party no-horse-in-the-race decide and then both of you try their advice. Right now your wife is obviously very upset and tense about this and you are down playing it. Even if you are right and she is over-reacting you aren't being very sympathetic or looking for a solution. Ask yourself, if it comes down to it and you had to choose would you rather your mother be upset or your wife? Your answer if you are honest will say a lot.

and your daughter could be the most wonderful person in the world, she still doesn't deserve to be treated the way you yourself have said she has been treated. Doesn't matter if she is the bigger person and is dealing with it, you as her father should be saying out loud that it is unacceptable.

She really has a hold on you hasent she op,DH. It does not matter, she cannot behave in the way she is behaving, to an outsider like your wife she can see it! How do you explain your brother being chucked out as a child, and not let back in? No excuse! Even as adults you are scared of her! Your wife has every right not to have anything to do with someone who treats her like that, and rvery right to protect your children from her if necessary.

You should be protecting your family and children, not your mum. She is playing mind games with them and you just cannot see it as you are brainwashed by her.

How come she ignores your ds when he says something she doesent like and gives him the silent treatment. That would confuse any chikd, let alone a chikd with Autism. My dd has ASD so I am aware. Tgat is no excuse for ignoring the other children. When my DH parents come they give my dd and ds their undivided attention, not just dd.

From DH, just let you all know, your responses are welcome and I AM
in a place of self reflection.

That is great op DH , you do need to have a long hard think and look at it as an outsider would see it!

PTDdh, I know we are being harsh, you are a big person to reach out to strangers and deal with the backlash. I wish you much wisdom and luck in figuring out how to deal with your problem.

You say your DM is lovely 95% of the time, but be truly honest here. Is it only when you do EXACTLY what she wants? Would she be lovely 95% of the time if you all acted normaly? Ie, had different opinions on things, teased each other, show that you are upset with something she has said etc.

Because if she WOULDN'T be, what you are doing is teaching your children to walk on egg shells around their grandmother, in order to have her nice for as much as possible. THAT's not normal, THAT's not ok. You are NOT teaching them tolerance, you are teaching them that an aggressor is to be kowtowed to, you are teaching them that bullies deserved to be appeased. You have admitted that your DM would go cold on her GD if she dared to tell her how she feels. You KNOW this about her.

How would you feel if they found partners who treated them the way your DM treats people? You have someone who loves you, and showed you that things like silent treatment are not ok in a loving relationship. How would you feel if by exposing them to their grandmother your children got the message that actually, things like silent treatment are a brilliant way to get what you want, or that they are deserving of being given the silent treatment.

You want your mothers love and approval. And she probably does love you, in her own way. But she doesn't love you, or anyone else, enough to let them be their own person. She doesn't love them enough to be supportive of them, without regard to their own feelings about a situation.

You love your DM, but you love her more than she loves you, which shouldn't be the case. A parent's love for their DC should be so strong, so unwavering, so illogical that it just IS. It's a biological imperative, it's how we're designed. The love for your mother, is genuine, but sometimes thoughtless, sometimes off hand, easily taken for granted because you should NEVER have known a moment when you have doubted it or questioned it.

It sounds like your dd is telling it differently to op than to opdh - opdh dc often people please, tell people what they think you want to hear and perhaps you lead her down that route conversationally - a dc can quite easily be drawn to swear black was white in a lead conversation (if dm is quite manipulative perhaps this rubs off on you?). Your dw has heard and seen a different side, perhaps observe a little more, include all dc in conversation with her - don't let dd's be sidelined, having sn does not entitle ds to 100% of the attention and relationship with dgm! she might deal with him differently but her dgds should not be treated like crap. Take a step back, really watch and re-evaluate - discuss each event afterwards to see how each other saw it - no one tries to cause massive family upsets for no reason. - either they are the offending party or the long suffering "main victim" your dw is v upset, so much so that a massive family issue is more appealing than ever seeing dm again - either she is telling the truth or she is the trouble maker (which is what you are saying siding with dm so you can see why dw is hurt surely?) so have a look in stately homes as suggested and then watch dm like a hawk. - remember all the things your dw experiences and really think about it.

This is PTD. I just wanted to say a HUGE thanks to everyone who are helping us through this. Jeez it's hard. DH is opening up a tiny, weeny bit to the possibility their might be a problem, which is progress, it really is! It is hard to see him so angst-ridden tbh, not pleasant at all, but I know he needs to hear it and work through it. I feel so so sorry for him. He has been reading a lot about narcissistic and emotionally abusive mothers and he really sees a lot of her behaviours listed and it has really shocked him. He has recognised that he is the 'goldenchild' and his DB's the 'scapegoat'. He has even recognised that he has been doing that with our DS 'scapegoat', and perpetuating this behaviour (which again has really upset him). He really thought this was normal, and it has shocked him to hear that it isn't (despite the fact I have been saying it for years). For the record, I pull him up every time he puts down our DS, especially to his sisters.

I can tell that he is worried about the backlash regarding a decision to go NC for GC, with regards his whole family. They won't get it, and will think we are making a mountain of a molehill (apart from DB who will TOTALLY get it).

There is a lot of guilt in him because he DM has played the victim all her life. Apparently there was domestic & sexual violence in her relationship with his DF, and then she divorced him when DH was very young. This has been the excuse for her behaviour by everyone for years and was the excuse for why she kicked her DS's out at 13 and 14 (she did it to two by the way).

Anyway, it is all very complicated and we both appreciate so much everyone who has taken the time to give their viewpoint on this.

Hi OPs Dh. :)

My DH was in your same position. He felt like he has loyalty lay with his mum, because it was his mum. She could say things and act really badly because it was just the way she was. Which was true, but that doesn't make it ok.

Your mum may be really good with your DCs, she may do a lot of things that are nice.
But didn't she kick your 13 year old brother out because he went against her wishes? And ignore him for years? Just like that. Do you think that's normal? What happens if your DC went against what she wanted..she would do exactly the same without a doubt. She cut her own son out for years really easily. That's not normal.

I was your wife a year ago. It was hell. She was getting away with being malicious and down right nasty. Manipulating everything.
She never accepted any blame, was either her way or no way at all. She loved DD so much and she wasn't spending enough time with her..even though she canceled. .but it was still our fault.

It took years but he finally snapped because of how she acted when I was in DD2.

And you know what?

After all the tantrums and the woe is me speeches, there has never been an apology and she walked away from her son and grandchildren so ducking easily it makes me feel sick.

DH is now confident and my dds don't need a toxic mess.

You need to find your backbone and protect your wife. If a friend treated you how your mum treats you, would you still stick around?

Just because she's your mother doesn't mean she can treat you and your wife like crap.

Ps you aren't 23 now, be a grown up and don't let her treat your dc or dw like shit - if she. "Goes cold " then so do you, tell her you will not see her till she apologises, accepts her behaviour is beyond ridiculous for a grown woman and will not happen again and she is profusely sorry for what she has done and hope you can forgive her.

Tbh a grown up would not wait for her to turn on a child and would speak to her first. So if your dw lets a next visit happen with the agreement that you really observe your dm, perhaps actively include dd's more than usual to see her response, analyse then talk to your dm fully appreciating that your dw is right. (From your own post about the things your dm does nothing from the op) it really can't go on and you shouldn't demand that your daughters and wife should not have to put up with that inflicted upon them - I am sure there are other ways to teach empathy.

Good luck PTD. That is the first steps to your DH recognising there is a problem, I am glad the penny is finally dropping and he is seeing the situation for what it is and how others are seeing it. Going NC or distancing yourselves is up to you, and nobody else. Stuff the wider family. .

Ducking. Obviously ducking. My phone is crap. Sorry

Yes there will be backlash. Flying monkeys they're called. Letting you know how upset and heartbroken your poor dm is. How she has no idea what she's done wrong and why you hate her so much.
relax. It's all part of the script.

Oh she'll get really ill too. Probley cancer. Or depression. Just to guilt trip you more

FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING.

OBVIOUSLY.

I was listening to a radio show recently and someone was talking about toxic people in their life and how she deals with them. Some people she just has to let go and not contact. She said that there were some people that she still saw in her life because for one reason or another going NC wasn't going to work. She said that her way of dealing with it was to put very clear limits on contact and stick like to them like glue and let the chips fall where they must. That putting those limits down sometimes meant that the other person stormed out or pitched a complete fit or lied about her to family members and she let them but walked away and stayed firm on the limits.

There might be a way of maintaining contact but having these limits. Only meeting in public in a place you can easily leave, for short periods of time, agreeing between you what you will do if XYZ happens. Having a code word (I like 'flying monkeys'!!) to help each other recognise when the plan has to go into action or when you start to go back to old behaviours.

DM will try and do just about anything to keep the status quo and it will be really hard to do the opposite of what you have been trained all your life to do. She will probably be really really upset and distraught or angry but try and remember that it isn't doing her any good to be allowed to behave this way either, that might make your resolve stronger. Yes the rest of the family will probably get involved and should be told to butt out. Again, they have been trained to behave in a certain way so that everything is as calm as possible. You not following the script is scary for those who fear the outbursts.

DM choosing to go NC or storming out is meant to punish you and make you feel uncomfortable. Turn it around, think of it that she is not ready to behave yet and NC is a blessing for you and her.

DH you must be a really kind and loving father and husband to be willing to open up this can of worms. You are a good person who just hasn't realised before now. Good luck on your journey.

"DH you must be a really kind and loving father and husband to be willing to open up this can of worms. You are a good person who just hasn't realised before now. Good luck on your journey." selfconfessed

^^this is absolutely true.

how is he doing OP?

I think if he had unintentionally scapegoating your son, then its possible that in his subconscious he recognised the behavior, he just needed time to get his head round it.

He's done a brave thing by doing research into it. It might be hard for him, but the end results will be worth it.

I am not sure the answer here is NC or not NC. I think it's about having some boundaries with MIL that she doesn't overstep. Where those are drawn comes down to the couple, but there needs to be an agreement about what's OK and what isn't - and not just about the way the children are treated (most really won't give that much of a damn) but more about the way OP is treated. This is an issue, and it's as well to have it out in the open rather than making excuses that it's 'really' about the children - OP has a right to be treated well, end of!

I don't care if MIL was abducted by aliens and subjected to cruel and oppressive treatment on the planet Zog - boundaries are STILL important. In fact, they are more important in terms of maintaining conditions of basic respect. DH needs to take an active role in ensuring that they are not crossed.