To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

*sorry-England, not UK

OP, YANBU. Once in a while, certainly, but every day is a bit much, and frankly unnecessary.

As for outside of the UK, it is not standard for all US children to do the Pledge every day. I don't know a single state school child who does this in our US city. Perhaps once or twice a year. I can imagine there are some states that are keener on this, but it's not nationwide by any means.

Second, to say that O Canada is "played in school everyday" in Canadian schools is nonsense. Maybe in your school it was, MummyBeerest? It wasn't in any of my schools in BC, nor those of my children, nor those of my relatives in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec. If it was, many parents, including myself, would have had something to say about it - not just nowadays, but even back in ancient times, when I was in elementary.

OP - this is the sort of thing that will vary from school to school in the UK depending on the leadership of the school. You need to speak to them about it.

We're not brain washed over here. We are just proud of our country.

I am American. I agree with this. There is a lot of misunderstanding on MN about our patriotic practices, and I think some of that comes from how fraught some of the history in the UK is regarding flags. The flag is a unifying symbol in our very divided country. I am a lefty Democrat and I fly the flag on national holidays, just as my next door right wing Republican neighbor does.

Someone mentioned My Country Tis of Thee and how bad it is that American school children have to sing it. No American child has to sing a patriotic song or say the Pledge of Allegiance. We have a Constitution that protects a refusal under freedom of speech and religious freedom.

I actually like My Country Tis of Thee. It's sung to the tune of GSTQ. This is the first stanza:

My country tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring!

Anyone familiar with Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech will recognize the resonance of the last two lines.

It was in my school...and is, locally where I live.

Can I ask why that would be nonsense?

I do find it rather ironic that most people objecting to anthems are stating that to sing them-or even listen to them-is uninclusive.

It would be nonsense to state this as a fact of Canadian life, as though this is always what happens everywhere in Canada. Why not just say it happens in your school? I felt you were saying it was a nationwide occurrence, but it isn't.

Those of us who don't agree with this sort of practice tend to get annoyed at the suggestion that it is normal and straightforward, and it isn't. I can see how it could be a regional thing, just as the Pledge is in the US.

I am not worried about the inclusiveness of an anthem. Most people I know who have adopted new countries (UK, Canada, the US) have done so with great pride and fanfare and absolutely love singing their respective anthems. I object to doing it routinely, day to day, because it really does feel like brainwashing.

Fair enough. I actually didn't think another Canadian would be on here for comparison! I so rarely find another.

I went to anAmerican school where we sang Jeruselum in assembly frequently. I don't see the harm in such things. My father believes the Star Spangled Banner ends with"Drivers, start your engines!"

Most municipal meetings in the States start with the Pledge. I live in New England, and haven't been to such things in other regions.

I would have no objection to it.

Like a previous posters we've lived in a lot of places and singing the national anthem at the start of the school day has been the norm.

There are plenty on here! I forget their names though. You find the west coast and Alberta ones on later at night. I think there are quite a few from Ontario. Most of them are very nice and mostly not too badly argumentative

I'm in Australia (born in uk, moved here when I was12) and when I was at school we sang the Aussie anthem at assemblies. They still do. My only objection was that I prefer We Are Australian to Advance Australia Fair!
I'm trying, I honestly am, to see a problem here but like worra said at the start of the thread, I just can't. It's a song, it's traditional, that's all. It's like not being particularly religious but enjoying christmas carols, surely?
I do think sometimes people waste a lot of energy on getting wound up about things that aren't really a big deal.

We live overseas. Our children sing the local national anthem everyday. The local country is very concerned about maintaining its culture against economic migration. It means more to the decision makers that the actual children.

I recently came home and went to a funeral. The singing was rousing and comforting as the hymns were Jerusalem, Bread of Heaven and another one that I can't remember the name of (oops). They instantly connected everyone as part of a culture and I was grateful that we had sung them all at school. We had assembly daily in those days.

Go and talk to the school. Teachers always love a 'you'll never believe this' story to tell in the staffroom.

...but an interesting one, please.

It'd be hard to raise a decent staffroom guffaw over 'Fred Blogg's mum would rather we don't make him sing the National Anthem'.

Especially as Fred could just stand politely with the rest of his year group & not join in with the singing.

Honestly, we're not that hard up for righteous indignation/piss-taking material!

I'm one of the few people who actually likes singing GSTQ. That's because I believe in God and think the institution of the constitutional monarchy reflects one of the UK's strengths.

However, another strength, particularly in England, is that we just don't do nationalism. There are many, many good reasons for this, not least that it can be an unpredictable force. I would have no issues with with my kids singing GSTQ from time to time, but not every morning.

Incidentally, I would have issues with Land of Hope and Glory ("Wider and still wider shall thy bounds be set" = imperialism).

Patriotism is just such a ridiculous concept. You have no control over where you happen to be born, it is absolutely no achievement yet you're expected to be proud of it. Why?

I wouldn't have a problem with my child learning the national anthem. Shite as it is he might as well be able to recognise it and see it for what it is. I would have a problem with him singing it every day at school. That's just brainwashing. I feel exactly the same about religion - it's important to learn about these things but don't force them onto him.

YANBU. I don't object to children being taught the words of the national anthem (although I'm a republican) at some point during their school career. But I would object to it being sung on a daily basis.

Yanbu. I would be pissed off at this. Teach him the Marseillaise, about the blood of aristos running in the furrows. Much more fun.

I think it's a very good idea to instill some patriotism in this country. Singing the national anthem is a very good way to start.
I come from abroad, we sang it every Monday morning, everyone was very respectful of it. We are very patriotic.

I find it really sad you feel like this. All over the world children take pride in the country they live in and singing a national anthem is part of that. Why shouldn't we love our country ? Doesn't make us hate other countries. On a similar subject, it also makes me sad the far right have hijacked the Union Flag.

Dinah

I am always amused by the people who dislike the national anthem BECAUSE JINGOISM but then seen to feel that somehow Jerusalem is OK. It's arguably more jingoistic, and it was taken from a pretty dodgy bit of poetry celebrating religious extremism. I do think a lot of this about esthetics--Jerusalem sounds so much better than the national anthem (which is a bit of a dirge, let's face it).

I'm not English but am British. I see no reason/problems with my DCs singing this in school.

I would be hugely pissed off because:

1. I hate having a monarchy and don't wish my children to be indoctrinated.
2. It feels like they are (yet again) copying the USA
3. It's such a dreary song
4. I would prefer them to sing songs that taught them some decent morals or made them feel happy than waste time on this.

I love England, but that had nothing to do with the queen.