To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

I find it's a very British thing to see patriotism as something dirty

I definitely think this is an 'English' thing potentially, rather than a British thing.

Lol... Op. You are a funny fish

You need to get a massive grip.
Your reaction is so dramatic and ott and based on nothing.

You need a good sense of humour, drama and above all history, for Land of Hope and Glory. 'Wider still and wider, shall thy bounds be set, god who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet'. Oh yes.

If they've covered some British colonial history, including how people in the colonies responded and what has happened since, and are able to discuss the role of religion in supporting a well-honed sense of innate superiority, as a driving force in foreign policy - some really interesting parallels to the present day available there - then, they are ready for LOHAG. IMO.

Why am I making too much of it? Schools are officially supposed to be inclusive now and should be encouraging children to be critical listeners, readers and thinkers. How does that fit with being told what you should and shouldn't love, and being taught this country is better than others?

I am fond of this country - I lived abroad for a bit in my 20s and got quite sentimental about it at times - but this sort of 'flag-waving' mentality is best avoided, imo, and, yes, not quite, I don't know...cricket?

I'm going to have to talk to ds about the lyrics as well - don't want to have him singing merrily away about our borders being 'wider still and wider', or whatever it is, without a thought to what he is saying. I will be going against the teacher here, which is usually a no-no to me, but they seem to have been taught them as being all about how much we all love being English (which some children in the school may not be) - I am Welsh and hate it when English is used to mean British, but there may be others there with more serious objections.

WalkingInMemphis sadly I think you're right.

Patriotism is positively encouraged in England, NI and Wales.

Whereas in England, some feel we're supposed to brush ourselves under the carpet, or stare at our feet with red faces.

Grrrrrr! I meant SCOTLAND not England.

Yanbu at all, OP! I'm amazed at the responses you've had so far.

I must say that if I were in England i'd find it hard to sing either GSTQ or LOHAG with gusto. They're both poor and distasteful songs IMO and nothing that would encourage me to be patriotic.

Ok, you're Welsh, I can maybe understand the animosity towards LOHAG then. Would you mind if he were singing and learning about Land of My Fathers?
But he is in a British school, I really can't see your problem with the British National Anthem.

Why am I making too much of it? Schools are officially supposed to be inclusive

Schools ARE inclusive, but we are also BRITISH.

We welcome all nationalities/religions but that will not change the basic history and culture of our country.

FFS Let your DC show pride - and support them in it.

I'd be a little underwhelmed too.

I think I might tell ds that I'm not, personally, a big fan of the National Anthem (I'm not), but it's for him to decide if he wants to participate - meanwhile, if they're singing it at school, at least be polite about it - stand up politely, & join in the singing or not as he chooses.

LOH&G at least has a decent tune, I suppose. Again - I'd expect dc to conduct themselves politely whilst it was being sung, & make their own choice to join in or not.

I don't see the compulsory singing of jingoistic lyrics as quite the best expression of 'British values' - good manners & tolerance, on the other hand, I'm all for.

YANBU op. I would too be annoyed that this decision was made by the school. They should have at least consulted parents about it. Most schools these days don't even do a traditional nativity so forcing children to sing God save the queen seems very odd indeed.

so you're Welsh, OP? Would you object to your DC singing Land of my Fathers? Or is it just English things you object to?

Land of Hope and Glory is a belter of a tune, as is Jerusalem. I object to God Save the Queen on the ground that it's such a plodding tune.

It's likely that the teachers talked about the fact that not everyone in the classroom was likely to be completely English, but as you haven't stated otherwise, I assume it's a fact that all the children in that classroom are living in England.

lottiegarbanzo fair point well made. But children have plenty of time to learn about all of that, I don't think it does them any harm to instil a sense of pride about the place they live in.

This is being brought in as compulsory in our LA.

DH and I are unsure as to whether request son opts out entirely, or so he does not get singled out he could sing God Save Our Chippy Tea instead.

YANBU, OP.

It's probably part of the school's interpretation of this whole push for so-called "British values".

I don't see the compulsory singing of jingoistic lyrics as quite the best expression of 'British values' - good manners & tolerance, on the other hand, I'm all for. Completely agree.

FFS Let your DC show pride - and support them in it. Pride is a dangerous thing. As I have said, I am fond of this country and, although I am Welsh, I have lived in England most of my life, h is English and I mainly consider myself British.

I am going to enquire about this and see what the teacher says.

How lovely!! Are we the only country that isn't allowed to be proud of who we are? I love the national anthem,Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem and Rule Britannia.

Which country was your child born in OP?

What's the point of National Anthems if not to sing them?

So what do you propose they sing instead then?

Republicans can be proud to be British too.

It is the national anthem of the country your child lives in. I don't see the issue.

Should your child grow up and for example excel at sport and go on to win gold medals/come first/win tournaments then the national anthem will be played and your child will sing along or listen respectively. Will you be complaining then?

Having just looked at the lyrics for GSTQ I cannot find the part "boarders being wider still wider".

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save The Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save The Queen.
2.
Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save The Queen!
3.
God bless our native land,
May heaven's protective hand
Still guard our shore;
May peace her power extend,
Foe be transformed to friend,
And Britain's power depend
On war no more.
4.
May just and righteous laws
Uphold the public cause,
And bless our isle.
Home of the brave and free,
Fair land and liberty,
We pray that still on thee
Kind heaven may smile.
5.
And not this land alone-
But be thy mercies known
From shore to shore.
Lord, make the nations see
That men should brothers be,
And from one family
The wide world o'er.

*Source was wikipedia.

I particularly like the last verse as that to me is stating that all men from whatever nation in the world are brothers and one family. I see this as inclusion not exclusion. I suppose it depends on how you read/view it.

YABU OP.

Do you know for sure that the children are not being taught to look at the song critically, to consider what the lyrics mean or to think about the fact that UK is made up of people from many different backgrounds?