To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

Just to say I went to a completely English and dare I say middle class primary school in the 60s/70s and we didn't sing the National Anthem every day.

Infact I can't remember where I learned the lyrics. I suppose I must have sung it a few times at primary school, just like I sang "We Three Kings" a few times at primary school, and the lyrics stuck - magical brains children have - but we absolutely did not sing it every day or even every week at primary.

How can it be a good thing and what can be achieved by it? It's so preposterous I can hardly believe its actually true?

No, Mintyy, not mentioned before - it's a state school. The intake is largely white - one of OFSTED's comments at the last inspection was that more needed to be done to encourage an understanding of other cultures/religions etc.

That said, I have been pretty happy with it so far (here since ds1 was in Y1).

Some wonderful displays of 'British Values' on this thread.

Learning both the NA & LOH&G, absolutely. Part of our heritage. I'd be 100% behind that.

Agreeing with the sentiments expressed is a matter of individual thinking, & frankly, expecting those who find them a tad problematic to bellow them out regardless merely cheapens them.

I don't say, or sing, stuff I don't agree with. I believe that it's important to think about ideas before you pay them lip service.

I am with the OP here. I find it astounding that schools would be doing this.

It seems that Britain is becoming a nasty insular country. I am British and left the uk 7 years ago and since I have had two children. Thanks goodness I don't have to deal with this

I am completely against religion in schools as I remember being read bible stories and forced to pray at school in the 80s when my parents had never even mentioned religion to be. It felt so imposing and fucked up

So now they are brainwashing through patriotism too?

Disgusting but then religion and patriotism are the laziest ways to try and control what an individual thinks. I thought any intelligent person had worked that out years ago

If I was the child I just wouldn't tell my mother what we were singing if I knew she was going to make a fuss! (I doubt I would have told her anyway- as not interesting)

DD learnt the lyrics to God Save the Queen for the Diamond Jubilee. I learnt them for the Silver Jubilee. That in itself doesn't bother me. I think being made to sing it every day is like American kids being made to sing My Country 'Tis of Thee and pledge allegiance to the flag every day. I find it creepy.

God, sounds like a naff and lazy way to meet the new 'teaching about Britishness' requirement.

I'm just reflecting on whether I am actually proud to be British / English. And I'm not sure...

Yes, there is stuff to admire: women's suffrage, industrial and engineering genius etc but how can I take pride in it, as I didn't contribute to it?

And then there is the flip side, knowing that the success of our country is built on the repression and exploitation of huge swathes of the rest of the world.

Oddly, although I don't feel proud of the good things I do feel ashamed of the bad.

Fluffing

Yes I am aware it is worse in the US but then I don't rate the us in terms of a ideal society. Much of what is wrong with the UK now is because they are always idealizing the US. Pathetic

I am glad they are singing it. I wish my DS's school did. If I were living abroad I would not expect them to sing their national anthem?

I agree with Worra.. Bring patriotism back to England

Catmint

There is nothing we can do about the country we are born in. But if you get good qualifications and a bit of experience then you can pretty much choose to live anywhere in the world - and if you learn a language then anywhere in Europe

Patriots tend to be ignorant people who feel threatened by outsiders. I am neither proud or shamed by being British, I couldn't really give a shit. It just happened like being born with green eyes, I really couldn't tell you whether I would prefer brown eyes because I've never had them!

Yabvvvvu what's the problem, we live in England. What the hell is wrong with being patriotic.

Some of the posters on here would have made me into a very secretive child - the moral is don't tell your mother if you know it is going to upset her- far too embarrassing!

YANBU IMO. I wouldn't want my DC having royalist jingoism pushed down their throats either. Our national anthem hardly promotes pride in our country.

if patriotism matters to you, stand round your dining tables and sing the bloody national anthem. Don't force it on everyone else (and their children).

I'm just wondering what patriotism actually is? What is actually being celebrated by it?

Genuinely, I don't get it, in the same way that I don't get supporting football teams either.

I think there is lots to be proud of in being English Catmint.

Just not God Save The Queen. From what, precisely? She's in her mid 80s & will shortly give way to her eldest, whether we 'save' her or not. Having spent 7 decades waiting to take over, he'll have a bit of a go at being king & then apparently we'll have to petition God to save him. Presumably said omnipotent God will please himself anyway.

It's all a bit silly IMO.

But it doesn't really matter what I, personally, think. No-one expects me to sing the NA before I go home from work, because we all tacitly accept that not everyone buys into it & that it'd be inappropriate to expect people to pretend they do.

I'm not comfortable with an expectation that school children should be required to sing songs they don't necessarily agree with.

I think there is a very good reason that many people feel uncomfortable with English (as opposed to Scottish or Welsh) patriotism. In the not-too-distant past, English patriotism, and indeed Land of Hope and Glory and God Save the Queen were associated with Empire: ie, the largely brutal colonisation of other countries. We cannot ignore that fact or brush it under the carpet. In the same way, plenty of German people seem to be just as twitchy and uncomfortable about patriotism IME.

The thing is, it's much easier singing about how lovely Wales is, for example, and how great the culture is & how wonderful the mountains and poets are - the Welsh haven't subjugated anyone for a very, very long time, if ever . . .

I really think that Jerusalem should be adopted as an English national anthem - it's loved across the political spectrum and celebrates the country in a non jingoistic way.

YANBU OP. As an atheist and republican I would object to having this drivel rammed down my child's throat.

I DO think its a bit odd to be proud of the place you were born in, tbh.

It's just an accident that we are here at all.

I think England (where I was born) is ok but absolutely no better than the vast majority of other countries in the world.

I'd be fairly if anyone stated that as an English person their culture consisted of Land of Hope and Glory, though I wouldn't mind children learning to sing it, provided they learned a wider range of English cultural songs as well, such as Hands Knees and Boomps a Daisy, and John Barleycorn.

Nrtft

The first page was more than enough for me

YANBU OP

I loathe this sort of stuff. It's creepy (and creeping atm). I never signed up for this sort of lazy brainwashy patriotism. Keep wondering what country I've woken up in

But 'jerusalem' arguably is even more jingoistic than our anthem! Agree that there's the very particular taint of colonialism to all things English but disagree that we should not be proud of where we're from. There's a difference between moderated pride and arrogance or outright jingoism. Dds used to go to a school overseas at which the national anthem was sung with some fervour at weekly assemblies as their national & school flags were raised. A lovely ceremony for the school community.