To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

That's great, Marylou.

Does loving them (& I like 3 of those tunes myself) mean you'd like to see the loving of them a compulsory thing?

Perhaps we should all sing them before leaving work each day?

I'm proud of who I am. I'm not proud of the sentiments expressed in the National Anthem. I don't think they reflect well on my country, or reflect my moral standards or beliefs.

What on earth has that to do with anything, Worra? They were both born in England - I've lived here since I was eight. This really isn't about my being Welsh. I don't like it when people use 'English' when they mean 'British', but this is a secondary issue. I think Nationalism is a bad thing, pride in your country is a bad thing (not love for it, but that is a personal matter, not one that needs to be proclaimed, made official etc). I actually think that all of this goes against the British values that Raven mentioned above.

I do like LOHAG as it has a great tune and it makes me laugh.

I find the only way to sing it is with gusto, mentally acting the part of a red-faced Victorian industrialist (or maybe a jolly nice country doctor). Dunno, works for me!

Get a bit more proactive about teaching your DC more patriotic songs from other countries then OP.

Mine know the Welsh, English, Australian and American anthems. They're interested in these things.

Well you're the one who has mentioned more than once now that you're Welsh (not sure what that has to do with anything either?) so I was curious to know whether your child was Welsh or English.

So are you saying, that no countries in the world should ever have national anthems?

Blimey, that'd make some special occasions a bit dry.

I for one am disappointed that being proud to be British equates with singing a song that I do not agree with.

When I went to school I once wrote an essay on why the Monarchy should be abolished. Rather than the teacher tut tutting at it she got me to read it in class and then ask everyone who disagrees to put their hand up. A few kids put their hands up so she asked if any of them would engage in a debate about the issue and one girl agreed.

We were then given a week to prepare and then this girl and I presented our arguments, took questions and at the end the class had a vote.

I was encouraged for my views as they were my own and I had thought them through. Likewise the other girl was praised for her work too.

I do not believe our country should have an anthem which refers to God or the Queen. Although I am a Christian I feel that the anthem is not appropriate in a multicultural society. Why on earth should a Muslim or humanist sing a song about a god they do not believe in?

I love 'I Vow to Thee My Country'. Very stirring stuff.

YANBU OP. I would hate that and strongly object!

Yes an English thing. Patriotism in NI is lovely.

What on earth for, ClawHands. Ds is interested in many, many things: science, history, chess, cricket, clarinet, piano... His geography is pretty good, too. He loves the Roman era, but can talk to you about how those people being invaded must have felt, and how clever the Romans were to allow people to keep their religions. Why on earth would I want to interrupt all that rich and enlightening b drilling some patriotic songs into him?

What angers me is that is being brought in as compulsory. Whatever happened to people having a right to their own opinions? Why on earth should someone who disagrees with monarchy or does not worship God be expected to sing this?

Can he opt out of the singing if he wants to? I spent my childhood partly in England and partly in the US. I always happily sang God Save the Queen (despite not being British) so I don't actually know whether the option not to sing was available. When in the US, I recited the pledge of allegiance. However, my mother always told me that if I didn't want to say the pledge, I didn't have to. The Supreme Court decided long ago that schools cannot coerce children to say it. Knowing that I didn't have to made me feel quite empowered. So if there is an opt-out possibility for your son, I'd make him aware of it. Then he can choose whether to sing or not.

I'm quite uneasy about inculcating patriotism in children who are too young to understand what it means, as it often is presented as a dumbed-down, my-country-right-or-wrong sort of nationalism. That is the last thing we should be teaching children, especially in the current global political climate of resurgent nationalism and its negative consequences.

Blimey, that'd make some special occasions a bit dry. Maybe, but we aren't talking about special occasions, are we? We're talking about every sodding day at school .

"Patriotism is positively encouraged in NI" and that's worked out so well.

''Pride in your country is a bad thing'

Is it? Why?

I am sick of not being allowed to be proud to be English and British without being accused of being racist.

Bring back pride in being whatever nationality you are.

I think you are being OTT and maybe find out what the overall aim is of this before you go in all guns blazing.. teacher might be starting in England and moving round Great Britian doing 'traditional songs'.. Which is far better than some of the crap the young musucians of today are coming put with....

Imagine the uproar if they brought in compulsory singing of a Muslim song about Allah in British schools.
So why should people be forced to sing this tripe?

I agree with you OP, I wouldn't be happy with this either, I'm surprised at so many responses to the contrary.

Very good loaderloader.

Just for the record - I took agin hymn singing at an early age, & it caused me no end of shite at school. Being the only militant atheist in a 70s RC primary church school, aged 8, was no fun at all.

So whilst I'll generally insist that my dc suck up school rules for the greater good (I'm a secondary teacher these days; chuff knows we rely on the kids generally being amenable), I do draw the line at their being required to say or sing anything religious or political with which they disagree.

If they all grow up to embrace the values expressed in the National Anthem, that is absolutely fine. If they are happy to sing it now, also fine.

If they aren't, I have their back on that one. I'd expect them to respect what's going on by standing, sitting, & keeping quiet whilst others sing, but I'd support them if they chose not to actively join in.

I have read the song 3 times now and still cannot see a problem with it

In fact the more I read it the more I like it. Especially the verse which calls for peace and not war and that foe becomes friend.

I object to people saying the OP is over-reacting. Some people have strong views on this topic and just because you are meh about it does not mean everyone else is.

Imagine a child attending a British state school and learning to sing the British national anthem.

Whatever next...