To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

I never said my son would grow up in a vacuum and I am specifically referring to songs which have a religious or political meaning which is clearly implied in the post I made.

However why take it so seriously when you can come up with a puerile response in an ill thought out attempt to invalidate what I am saying.

Come on, raise your game a little as I am getting bored now

Chicken in areas where there are large numbers of non british parents / non british children it could cause a lot of problems.

Making children recently arrived as asylum seekers from a country they love but have been forced to flee sing "God Save The Queen" and refer to her and Britain and the Queen as "ours" seems wildly inappropriate for example.

That's even not taking into account the fact that many families are republican / athiest.

I agree with all your points about there being many other things to celebrate. I've seen a lot on sky arts lately around david bowie / freddie mercury and for me people like them are what I feel proud of when looking at the UK, not the Queen and that side of things. Arguably our contributions through culture and music are far more visible, interesting etc to those in other countries when they look at us as well.

I think it's very much cricket.

I think cricket should be played during PE in the summer term too.

And if your DC grow up to be footballers, at least they'll now the words, and be able to sing up.

It does seem to be a little..odd, but I would have no issue with it, or my DC singing the national anthem of another country if we lived there.

Maybe they'll start flying flags outside the school next.

Making children recently arrived as asylum seekers from a country they love but have been forced to flee sing "God Save The Queen" and refer to her and Britain and the Queen as "ours" seems wildly inappropriate for example.

Well, seeing as it will be their new country, why shouldn't they?

I don't really like patriotism anyway. I don't see the point of being proud of something that is entirely an accident of birth.

But if there is a reason to be glad (if not proud) of being British, it's this: we live in a country where people are free to believe what they want without being persecuted for it. This is an exceptionally rare state of affairs both historically and globally. I think most of us probably don't realise how lucky we are.

So people who are telling the OP she should go and live in another country if she doesn't share the same views as them are, ironically, undermining the absolutely best part of Britishness, which is that freedom to believe and express contrary views. If people who don't believe in God or the monarchy had to leave the country, then Britain would immediately lose the one quality that makes it a place worth living in.

YANBU OP

I'm surprised by some of the responses - me - I'd not be best pleased and I'd ask if they where doing it for a topic or something - it's OTT to sing it every day

I'd probably not be overly bothered but it would make me a bit I am a humanist none royalist lefty - I don't massive worry about 'exposure' to religion etc because my kids can make their own choices but I'd query the everyday OTT'ness of it all

Yabu op. Why not teach your children to despise their country, litter, leave graffiti, break the law?

Ffs this is Britain, it isn't perfect but have you seen some of the other countries out there? Why not be patriotic, there is a lot of good in this country, let's celebrate it maybe a trip to Syria or the like may bring you to your patriotic senses

Because making them sing about how they love Britain and the Queen and see her as their ruler, along with a God that they may not share, is just incredibly inappropriate. So not only have the been forced to leave a country they love and where loved ones and friends probably still are, under traumatic circumstances, they are being told they must pledge themselves to a different country, a different ruler and a different God, and that their home country is no longer theirs, that Britain is now their "Native Land".

I get that you can't see that which is up to you but you need to understand that many people in the UK would be horrified by that.

or you could teach them to be decent human beings without needing to sing allegiance to a figurehead, God or country

Penguin your post is hysterical

Bloody hell. Will join the ranks of those a bit aghast that those who disagree with children being forced to sing God Save the Queen at school every day should leave Britain.

Just shows where "tolerance" is for these type of people. One of Britain's main points of pride when compared to the rest of the world.

we live in a country where people are free to believe what they want without being persecuted for it. This is an exceptionally rare state of affairs both historically and globally. I think most of us probably don't realise how lucky we are.

So people who are telling the OP she should go and live in another country if she doesn't share the same views as them are, ironically, undermining the absolutely best part of Britishness, which is that freedom to believe and express contrary views.

I think I love you Hackmum. You deserve to be proud of yourself.

I don't see the problem. my dd sings our national anthem in school at sporting events etc it was pretty standard when I was a kid as well. we are Irish though we sing for everything lol

YABVU, I don't see the problem with it.

Perhaps someone should teach it to the english football players.

Which anthem is that mommy2ash?

If it's A Soldier's Song, I don't speak Irish, then as the Catholic child of an Irish Catholic and and English Protestant I'd have a pretty big problem with being expected to sing that, and so would my parents.

It has been sanitised. Just like the verse about knavish tricks, which I take to mean Catholics, has been dropped from God Save The Queen/King, including the lyrics that someone posted much earlier.

There is a much much bigger problem of dumbed down state primary schools where children don't learn traditional English hymns and songs and just do low grade music with tambourines rather than singing complex wonderful harmonies in Latin in parts. Just because children's parents do not earn enough to pay school fees does not mean they need to be ignorant of these things. No child should leave a UK primary school even a Muslim one without knowing the national anthem and all our traditional hymns. If the teachers don't know them they should hire teachers who do.

I was at primary school in the 1970's - we sang sea shanties and folk song but not hymns and anthems

I do know lots of hymns and have sung in Latin etc because I sang in a CHURCH choir which is where all children can learn hymn - it's not a schools job in a secular society to teach hymns

The National Anthem is not a wonderful song it's an awful dirge.

I mean it's got sod-all going for it really.

What's wrong with learning hymns and the Lord's Prayer and other Christian tenets at church greengrow? That's where I learned them.

School is for teaching you how to spell and add up and stuff.

I dreamed of being allowed to play the tambourine btw. I was only ever allowed to ting the triangle.

oh yes limited I was always on the triangle as well :( I longed for maracas or a tambourine

I don't mind them learning and singing all sorts of stuff as long as it's a mix. There are some great songs + schools still have to have a christian "nature" for want of a better word unless they have an exemption to do another religion instead so singing O Little Town of Bethlehem at xmas for example is, well, OK + and it's a big plus, it's a cultural norm.

Singing the national anthem in class every single school day is not a mix, and it's not a cultural norm, and it's weird and where has this idea even come from and why is it spreading.

We are not drum beating flag waving nationalists, we just sort of quietly get on with it with a fair amount of feeling pleased about the good and feeling not pleased about the bad. We are not american, or north korean, or any of the other countries where this sort of thing goes on.

Yes, of course, because the US and North Korea are absolutely comparable in this context. I don't think I've ever read a sillier statement.

I wouldn't say the British generally win any points for quiet patriotic pride. In fact, there is as much knee-jerk, thoughtless nationalism in the UK as in any other place I've lived in. Obviously, that certainly does not apply to everyone in the UK (as this thread amply proves).

I think I went to the same school as ghosty back in the 70s. Way haul-a-way, we'll haul away Joe! We had these booklets that told us the social and historical context of what we were singing, with pictures - it was fascinating and the tunes were great. I remember once playing some kind of woodblock, but never made it as far as the tambourine. And yes, I Vow To Thee, My Country was in our hymn-books and we sang it occasionally.

As to the OP, YADNBU. It's rather ironic that such young children have been learning Land of Hope and Glory alongside a project on India. Maybe the teacher is trying to make some kind of point about imperialism? I might do that with teens if I were trying to help them understand cultural domination, and how the exploitation of peoples in non-white lands was made thinkable back home:

'Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set,
God who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier yet.'

I can imagine that if I had a class of teenagers I would want to discuss with them the effect of songs like this on the British working class (who didn't benefit much from British rule in India) and on the British middle and ruling classes (who did). Not 7-year-olds though. And I wouldn't have wanted mine singing it at that age. There are loads of lovely songs from the British Isles whose lyrics can be explained to children in age-appropriate ways, and which can teach them the histories and cultures of the country in which they live. Alongside literally millions of great songs from across the world, some of which they should also be learning.

"Just because children's parents do not earn enough to pay school fees does not mean they need to be ignorant of these things."

I really do find it amusing to see how many times you can shoehorn your dreadful goading snobbery into unrelated posts Greengrow. Just wanted to let you know your efforts have not gone unnoticed!

I object to any young child singing a song they cannot objectively analyse.

I assume you keep them away from much of today's chart music then?

I think Seven makes a good point about wanting a mix of cultural activities. OP, why not tell the school that it's great they have learned the UK national anthem this week, and ask which ones they will be doing next week. I suggest starting with the French or German ones, their words are just as reprehensible as ours but at least they have cracking tunes.