To think that the new SNP leader just pledged to ignore the will of the majority of Scottish people?

[RudeBarbandCustard]

Forgive me if I'm being naive - I may well be.

But Nicola Sturgeon pledging to continue to fight for Scottish independence is essentially a pledge to fight against the majority of the Scottish people's democratically expressed wishes?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30011423

I mean, it couldn't be clearer. The majority of Scottish people voted No. So she's essentially saying "Hey, majority of Scotland - I'm going to ignore what you voted for in a democratic process, and fight for the opposite!".

It smacks of arrogance, and a complete disregard for what people voted for!

I may be missing something though, but it's intriguing and bugging me so I'd be interested to hear what others think.

SirChenjin X posted with you, very much on the same page with you here

Education is devolved - they already have control of how the finances are spent on nurseries.

Yes, out of the money allocated to the Scottish government by Westminster.

The SNP are independence. Its what they do. As long as they are voted out of power in the next election. There will be no issue.

And they did respect the result, there was no UDI. There was no call for an recount, or an investigation into the blank backed ballot papers.

And it was once in a political generation. Alex Salmond has stepped down, and there is a new and very large generation running the SNP.

Was nice to see lots of yes badges in town, and a Yes stall signing people up to SSP/SNP/Greens...

I miss the stalls!

Yes - that's how the UK works. However, that doesn't (and didn't) stop them re the nurseries.

And that's the point, they aren't getting independence, because Scotland voted no. So now they should shut up about it and make the best of what they have.

As part of women for independence we were thinking about doing some promotion through stalls, and with cnd. I think it's a great way to engage people and I expect we'll see a lot more of them in the future.

There was no call for an recount

Yes there was, did something like 90,000 people not sign a petition?

And if it was once in a generation, why are they harping on about it again?

Just coming back to something pp have mentioned, don't underestimate people's 'personal' reasons for voting no.

Some pp who voted yes and campaigned for a yes vote have talked about the excitement and exhilaration of the campaign, which I completely understand.

The flip side of that is the very genuine anxiety, fear and fear of change felt by a significant proportion of no voters.

The yes campaign did nothing to address that and in fact characterised it as being 'fearty' and 'weak', which I imagine got many peoples backs up (it certainly did mine - but I can only speak for myself of course). The currency issue was a garing example of this - the whole farrago over the pound.

Some posters will also recall the 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' line which was coined by the yes campaign.

Well SNP politicians are elected on a platform, which includes fighting for independence. If they reneged on this platform, they would be betraying the people who voted for them, and betraying their democratic mandate.

The problem is that two distinct democratic processes are clashing. Parliamentary election vs referendum in this case, but the more common case is parliamentary election vs presidential election in other countries (doesn't happen that often in British politics because the PM is by definition the leader of the parliamentary majority). France and the USA come to mind: say Barack Obama was elected on the promise to reform US healthcare, but then the people also go and elect a Congress opposed to reforming healthcare. I don't think Obama is wrong in still trying to get his reform passed. (example only bears passing resemblance to what actually happened, for the sake of clarity!)

*glaring example.

Like the nursery thing, they could do that just now. They don't need to be independent for that

I was answering this point. They made a start increasing nursery hours before the referendum. They can continue to do so within the limitations of the money Scotland is allocated.

Independence means full control, not just working with an allocation, and the potential to do more, less restrictions. That's why childcare was mentioned throughout the referendum.

It's not even a policy I'm fully behind. Take any issue though and the argument remains the same.

It's not just the last ditch promise that is impacting how the SNP move forward though is it? It's the politicking that's gone on since the result was confirmed. You cannot dismiss the fallout UK wide & the reaction to the desperate 12th hour intervention that has come from the 'better together' parties. None of that is the SNP's doing. The Smith Commission has the potential to really get to grips with the issues that concern the people of Scotland & determine where the power for effecting the changes needed should lie, and IMO it's very important that the SNP keep up the pressure to make sure this doesn't become an exercise in futility. I have absolutely no problem with the SNP doing what they are doing while the smith commission deliberates the thousands of submissions made to have a say on what powers should be devolved. The best chance anyone has of putting the SNP's 'gas at a peep' is the right settlement in determining what powers should be devolved because that takes the wind out of the SNP sails for independence.

And it was once in a political generation

No, that wasn't what was said. Salmond Salmond ruled out another referendum for a generation, roughly 20 years. Nothing about a political generation - although he did say that this was his view. So yet another meaningless promise from a very slippery astute politician.

Annunziata you seem to be confusing the SNP with the Yes campaign in general. The SNP didn't call for a recount. Some Yes voters did. You can't equate the whole of the Yes campaign with the SNP.

And as I said earlier, it would be lovely if people kept quiet when they have views that disagree with our own, but it's not going to happen and nor should it. As long as people see no alternative to the nasty policies coming out of Westminster, and that includes Labour as well btw, there will always be a drive for independence. Instead of moaning about it, why do No voters, if they really do feel as badly about poverty etc as they say they do, why not engage and organise some other way to address the issue?

Next years GE will be critical. I suspect the SNP won't get the landslide mandate many seem to be expecting. These are the same people who are surprised the referendum went no, because all their friends were voting yes.

If they're pinning their hopes on next year, they may be headed for a disappointment.

They can continue to do so within the limitations of the money Scotland is allocated

Therein lies the rub (or one of the rubs). The SNP simply could not demonstrate to enough people that Scotland would be significantly better off as an independent country, and that these so called 'limitations' would be done away with. They had years to do so, and they still couldn't come up with a definitive answer.

Morris - I really hope so. I think that the continuing push for another referendum by the SNP in light of the fact that so many of us, very irritatingly, voted incorrectly, might actually put people off voting for them. Surprisingly enough, I have voted for them in the past - but I will be using my vote tactically to try and reduce the likelihood of having a repeat of the last 2 years.

"Instead of moaning about it, why do No voters, if they really do feel as badly about poverty etc as they say they do, why not engage and organise some other way to address the issue?"

I think that's a rather big assumption to make. Do you know that they aren't?

It's an assumption I would make actually based on hearing from no voters who appear apathetic, reluctant to change and happy with the state of play.

It's like the games won, they're back to business, we'll have no changes here thank you very much.

I'd happily be proven wrong though.

Did you submit to the Smith commission?

Rita - you've just illustrated perfectly what I was describing above,
regarding the mischaracterisation of no voters.

Its so difficult to know when to put your property on the market, (or plan your life and future). What do people think? We were going to hold off until spring, but this new stamp duty/tax is coming in, and the markets been pretty stagnant, in that there are a lot of properties I remember seeing on it about a year ago still there. Either they have been taken off and put back on again, or are still there. So in terms of how long it might take to sell, we are now just thinking we will get the estate agent round next week some time to get things in motion.

The game is won Rita - the majority spoke. It might frustrate you, you may want change, and you may resent the fact that we've gone back to business as before, but that is democracy. What a shame that you find the no voters apathetic. I find the yes voters to be very bitter, sore losers, but I suppose that's just overgeneralising on both our parts.

I did submit to the Smith Commission. Was that a bit of competitive 'who cares most about Scotland'?