To think that the new SNP leader just pledged to ignore the will of the majority of Scottish people?

[RudeBarbandCustard]

Forgive me if I'm being naive - I may well be.

But Nicola Sturgeon pledging to continue to fight for Scottish independence is essentially a pledge to fight against the majority of the Scottish people's democratically expressed wishes?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30011423

I mean, it couldn't be clearer. The majority of Scottish people voted No. So she's essentially saying "Hey, majority of Scotland - I'm going to ignore what you voted for in a democratic process, and fight for the opposite!".

It smacks of arrogance, and a complete disregard for what people voted for!

I may be missing something though, but it's intriguing and bugging me so I'd be interested to hear what others think.

YY to those who say that independence is a core SNP policy. I'd agree with you if Sturgeon had said she was going to implement independence regardless of the outcome of the indyref, and hell mend the 55%. But she didn't. She (and the rest of the yessers) would like to convince the others to change their minds and become pro-indy.

And as for pre-vote rhetoric, I'm SO feeling the love emanating from Westminster right now! The banks are thriving! No businesses are leaving Scotland! The supermarkets continue to make profit and benefit the people! Feh.

The SNP were respecting the democratic will of the Scottish people when they called the referendum - at least, they were respecting the will of the 45.39% of the voters who voted for them in 2011, when a referendum was a main plank of their manifesto. 45.39% of a 50% turnout! that is - so 22.695% of the total electorate.

But when 55% of an 86% turnout vote to stay in the Union - 47.3% of the total electorate - they don't see any need to respect that democratic result.

Frankly, if the SNP put a referendum in their next manifesto, I suspect we will be moving back to England. The last one was horrendously divisive, and has left a legacy of bitterness and unhappiness behind it that shows little sign of healing any time soon - and I don't think I can face another one, either on a personal level or as a member of society in Scotland.

She's not speaking right now as the First Minister (she isn't the First Minster yet, in fact); she's speaking as the leader of the SNP. It's a question of hats.

Can I just knock this 'demographic' argument on the head?

There is absolutely NO compelling evidence that the old voted 'no' & the young voted 'yes'. One teeny weeny partial poll does not equal truth, yet people state it as if it were fact.

My daughter and all her friends, first time voters, voted 'no'. So there is my poll and it is as robust as any other I have seen.

The secret ballot is the cornerstone of our democracy. We don't know who voted 'yes' and who voted 'no'. But lots more voted 'no' than 'yes' on a massive turnout. The nation spoke, and it spoke to remain united.

Scotland voted against devolution in the first referendum. In the second referendum they voted yes to devolution. Opinions change.

She's not speaking right now as the First Minister (she isn't the First Minster yet, in fact); she's speaking as the leader of the SNP. It's a question of hats.

I think that's the main thing for me - I was taking her as speaking as First Minister, but of course she isn't just yet.

Just checked, the first referendum was in 1979 and although the majority voted yes the vote did not meet the required 40%. The second referendum was in 1997, nearly 20 years later.

So I'm thinking there probably will be another referendum in years to come if the SNP have a majority in the Scottish parliament.

Can I just knock this 'demographic' argument on the head?

There is absolutely NO compelling evidence that the old voted 'no' & the young voted 'yes'

That's interesting. I also found that a bit offensive, as if they're saying 'Fuck you old people, you'll die soon and THEN we'll get what we want!'

Damn those old people, always holding back progress with their democratic rights.

I think the SNP, as the Scottish government,should be quiet about independence for the time being. They said pre-vote that it was a once in a generation vote. They lost. There is no appetite amongst the majority of the people of Scotland to continue this debate, which has been horribly divisive as a previous poster said. Raise it in a generation's time if they want. For now I think they should respect the will of the people of Scotland, respect their pre-vote talk of it being a one in a generation vote, and get on with running the country.

I think they have it the right way around. If they believe independence is the right way to go then they say so and you choose to vote them in or not.

The wrong way is what Tony Blair said once which was more or less 'tell us what you'd vote for and we will believe in it'.

He was saying either that he didn't care what he did as long as he got power or he was saying it didn't matter because he had no intention of keeping his promises.

Anyone who wants independence can vote SNP and they won't have to hope they keep their promise because it's what the SNP actually wants to do.

Alife completely agree with you

I also agree with you Back

Opinions do change, yes, but how many referenda can Scotland take, in quick succession?

The last one cost £13 million pounds - can Scotland afford another one in 2020 (the date I have seen suggested as a possible one for the next referendum)?

I know the damage the last one did to my mental health. I saw the rifts it caused in friendships and heard of the problems such rifts caused in workplaces. Like many No voters, I felt afraid to proclaim my allegiance, for fear of the possible backlash - now some of that could have been perception, not reality, but I saw plenty of vandalised No campaign posters/banners etc, and no damaged Yes campaign material - though friends have told me they did see vandalised Yes campaign material - and I heard stories of cars with No stickers being keyed, and people not putting up No posters because they thought their windows would be put in.

Whether all this is 100% fact or part fact, part perception, it did cause a lot of pain to people in Scotland - I cannot face being part of that again.

Before September 18th, the SNP and the Yes campaign leadership were pretty clear that this was the decisive vote for a generation - to me, it seems dishonourable for them to go back on that because they didn't get the result they wanted. If they had won, would they be willing to countenance a second referendum, or would they be expecting those of us who voted No to suck it up, and move ahead into a brave new future?

I'm scunnered off with the whole thing and wish it would all sod off! I always thought it be worse post referendum and it has been. I feel like many people simply ignored the vote and got all stampy footed because it didn't go their way. I've voted SNP in the past but I won't be for the foreseeable future as I don't think they've covered themselves in glory during or since the whole "Indyref" saga.

I seem to be the only person to have become disenfranchised with politics over the past year or so rather than becoming politically aware. I've always voted, always been aware...and now I'm pig sick of all of them and trust none of them

She hasn't said anything that objectionable there. It was Salmond and Jim Sillars, I forget his name, who tweeted in textspeak (some of us had to comment on that, in a formal work setting, to people from other countries; it was highly embarrassing to explain that was how Scottish politicians communicated).

I think what Salmond may say is that being voted into a majority in the next Scottish Election gives the SNP a mandate to adopt whatever measures they deem fit to achieve the aim of independence.

I thought what David Cameron said in his speech yesterday and the fact that he mentioned the rule of law four times and fundamental rights (ie human rights) at least once, was interesting. I don't think Nicola Sturgeon's speech said anything comparable.

Basically the rule of law means that you have a country has a strict respect for existing laws, particularly those with constitutional effect. It doesn't just change the law without following existing rules. Permission for the last referendum had to be given by the UK Parliament and statute enacted according to democratic rules. The rule of law is also about certainty and citizens being able to know what the law is and is likely to be in the future, and being able to rely on that. I would say Scotland absolutely doesn't have that at the moment, and in fact Scottish citizens have lost rights as a result of the Scottish Parliament, because it is unicameral rather than a bicameral chamber with an ineffective and at times corrupt committee system, and they have lost the rights they had under the UK Constitution on reserved matters without them being replaced by anything.

But of course in Scotland its so intolerant at the moment that you are not allowed to say things like that, and you instantly have a bunch of abusive thugs descending upon you if you dare to speak out.

Of course Scotland at the moment is a highly intolerant place where you are not supposed to mention the Prime Minister of this country in a positive light; and you are not supposed to respect universities like Oxford and Cambridge, and all sorts of things...its actually a bit of a scary place to be like now and I wonder whether people are being driven away because of that. I certainly want to get out and we are currently thinking what country in Europe it would be best to move to. Theres a lot of little jumped up dictator types and not so bright men who stand to gain a lot from creating a protected little fiefdom. Certainly, they don't want women like me in their country pointing out their failings - I know I wouldn't be welcome, or get a good job, in an independent Scotland - the jobs would go to the under-qualified and their henchmen.

Another referendum may not take place for another 20 years though.

I must have been lucky. The referendum I experienced bears no resemblance to the one you went through. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. It was an energizing, exhilarating experience for me.

I am sorry to read what you went through. SDTG.

I didn't find it energising, I found it terrifying that something as consequential for the economy as independence nearly came off. I hope scottish labour can recover their popularity.

I voted no because I wasn't convinced on a couple of fairly major issues. I'm not against independence. So if the SNP can be bothered to look at people like myself and work on addressing the issues that pushed my vote away from yes, then yes Nicola Sturgeon has a point in her pledge.

If she acts like her predecessor did in his last couple of weeks however she hasn't got a chance and should refocus her energies elsewhere.

Set phases, did you vote yes? The no voters I know were miserable and a lot were fearful. I did campaigning for the no campaign and I met voters who were too scared to say out loud how they were voting, but whispered to me and quickly shut the door, people were afraid to put up posters, people were really depressed and upset about the UK splitting up, people were fearful for their jobs.

I was a yes. I work in a city that had a huge yes vote. The atmosphere on the run up was electric.

They have every right to continue to campaign for independence. It's pretty much why they were formed isn't it?

As they are the UK's third biggest party now so it can't bother people that much.

Frankly they are a much better option than the current labour group even with jim murphy in charge.

Anyway it's great that people voted no because there was no oil off Shetland, the shipyards aren't closing and spending isn't being cut drastically and we are getting more devolved powers.....

Oh...wait a minute...

Shit

Yes, I don't think yes voters had any idea at all how no voters were feeling. It was pretty obvious how yes voters were feeling as they were so vocal. No voters were often too scared to speak out. This ranged from individuals to organisations and businesses. I removed my no posters on the night of the vote as I was scared of repercussions the next day. I never thought I would live in a country where I would be scared of such a thing. It was utterly appalling that people felt scared and intimidated in a vote in a democratic country. I never got the impression that yes voters understood this. Well actually maybe some did and were pleased. I stood at the polling station as a no campaigner and a yes campaigner loudly declared that all no voters should be put in a sack, weighted with stones and thrown in a river. None of his three fellow campaigners challenged or reprimanded him.

The recent dip in the oil price would have made it an even more interesting start to an independent Scotland BogQueen.

And after the No vote, we had a quiet smile at each other at work (those of us who knew each other as No voters). A Yes vote would have been an enormous and very triumphalist party.

And I hate all this nonsense about people voting No for more powers. Some may have done. I am concerned about the parish council politicians who are running Scotland and terrified they will get their hands on more powers.