To think that the new SNP leader just pledged to ignore the will of the majority of Scottish people?

[RudeBarbandCustard]

Forgive me if I'm being naive - I may well be.

But Nicola Sturgeon pledging to continue to fight for Scottish independence is essentially a pledge to fight against the majority of the Scottish people's democratically expressed wishes?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30011423

I mean, it couldn't be clearer. The majority of Scottish people voted No. So she's essentially saying "Hey, majority of Scotland - I'm going to ignore what you voted for in a democratic process, and fight for the opposite!".

It smacks of arrogance, and a complete disregard for what people voted for!

I may be missing something though, but it's intriguing and bugging me so I'd be interested to hear what others think.

By the way Claig whilst it is factually true there are more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs it is a trite comparison that ignores the fact that they got 17% of the vote but the geographical spread of their voters meant they only got one MP.

The UK did allow us a choice. The UK government.

Do you not trust your government to make decisions or do you think that they should call a referendum every time there's a decision to be made?

SirChenjin The Yes campaign defeat brought about many benefits actually

If you look at what the Italian Government has done in the Ticino region to prevent it succeeding, what Denmark have done for the Faroes, etc its quite similar to what Scotland's getting out of the UK. Basically giving them so much that they no longer want to leave.

I suspect a rather large element of the Scottish population are very canny and have realised this, but are quite happy to vote the SNP in to run local politics and day to day affairs.

Sorry, OOAOML, not suggesting that this was characteristic of FS - rather that wankers come in all shapes and sizes, I guess!

'By the way Claig whilst it is factually true there are more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs it is a trite comparison that ignores the fact that they got 17% of the vote but the geographical spread of their voters meant they only got one MP.'

Good point. Which shows that nearly 1 in 5 people in Scotland still believe in Conservative values. And remember that this Conservative Party of modernisers aren't even real Conservatives. Imagine if there was a real low tax populist conservative party that was not politically correct and challenged all this "named person" type stuff and introduced PR and local referenda etc - a UKIP type party, who believed in something and were not frightened to debate Alex Salmond and take him on etc unlike Cameron.

'Do you not trust your government to make decisions or do you think that they should call a referendum every time there's a decision to be made?'

I would prefer a referendum. I think they should be held to account. Electing a so-called "representative" for 5 years who then does what the whips tell them is not good enough. That is why our entire democracy is in crisis and why everyone - from Scotland to England and Wales - has had enough.

There will be change and PR and local referenda and that will unite us all once again and restore trust in this system that is currently full of chums from Eton and Oxford

I know Agent - sadly I have encountered wankers in all walks of life.

Do you not trust your government to make decisions or do you think that they should call a referendum every time there's a decision to be made?

Well you didn't trust them to make the decision. That's why you had a referendum. Really big long term changes should mean a referendum yes and I think splitting the UK is fairly significant.

I agree Chelsy

I had an idea. Why not have a referendum now that just included the voters in England, Wales and NI.

Do you want England, Wales and NI. to have independence from Scotland.

Yes
No

Equally as valid right? Though that way you'd keep the name and EU membership which is what some wanted.

'they got 17% of the vote but the geographical spread of their voters meant they only got one MP'

This is why we all need PR.
If Scottish people had been given PR and local referenda forty years ago, then Thatcher would never have been able to close down mines and shipyards etc against the wishes of local people. Then the disenchantment with the Westminster political class would never have reached the levels it is at today.

People must be empowered with direct democracy, local referenda, PR etc all over the country, then no government on a mandate of about 25%-30% would be able to ride roughshod over our wishes. Then we would have faith in our system once again.

In England, we don't want devolution for Essex, that will mean just another layer of bureaucrats and politically correct po-faced spinners feedng off the people and taxing us more for their pointless pet projects. What we want is referenda so that they have to consult us before turning off our street lights after midnight to "save the planet".

As long as any future referendum is worded so I can use all the yes merchandise I have I'll be happy.

Rita I see the pro-Indy (whatever the brand is called) has got a calendar out now, if you want to buy into the brand more.

Claig you seem to want fairly frequent referenda on a range of issues. How do you see that working on a practical level? Presume traditional Thursday polling day, lots of schools closed, is going to be tricky?

The independence referendum cost £13 million - I don't think Scotland can afford another one, let alone lots of them on many topics.

I want a Swiss style democracy. I want referenda every week on small and big issues and any citizen who wants to take part and feels strongly enough should be allowed to. I want our representatives to do as we tell them, not as party whips and lobbyists tell them.

Every supermarket could have temporary voting booths set up and paid for by our taxes. No need to close schools.

Democracy is the most important thing we have got. No expense must be spared to allow ordinary people to have their say. I don't want to listen to Jim Murphy mouthing off on a crate. Who is he? I want to hear what the people say in every village and town.

I want the power to be in the hands of the people and not in the hands of a political class that often have never had a real job outside of the student union and politics.

People have to feel empowered, so that we realise what we have in common and cherish the great traditions that we share. I have had enough of these professional spinners who ignore us and take us to war on lies.

They tell us we are apathetic and they call UKIP anti-politics. Scotland showed them and frightened them. The whole world marvelled and people in England and elsewhere wished the Scottish people luck in getting them off their backs. It was mighty close and they escaped by the skin of their teeth.

But while I wished we could have speakers like Tommy Sheridan down here to shake things up and frighten the chums down here, I am against anyone restricting my rights and liberties to choose by having vetos that disenfranchise me. That is why I am now am for some real opposition - some UKIP opposition - to the SNP.

I don't want a vote once every 5 years, I want a vote every single week.

'The independence referendum cost £13 million - I don't think Scotland can afford another one, let alone lots of them on many topics.'

They wasted billions on the Olympics and before that a billion on the Millenium Dome. Where did that money go? Who profited? Which directors and chums benefitted out of the people's tax money?

They didn't ask us, they just did it.

Well I think they should ask us before they spend our money and before they decide to pay themselves expenses to flip their homes and dig their moats?

They have fund raising dinners where rich moguls, oligarchs and property developers pay. Then contracts get awarded and someone benefits, but it isn't us.

Open it all up, make it all transparent, let them not be able to pass anything unless we say so.

"The independence referendum cost £13 million"

Wow, compared to their annual budget of our taxpayer money, that is just a drop in the ocean for the biggest, greatest participative democratic process that engaged the people of Scotland that these islands have ever seen.

And now, following that decision from the people we have...drum roll...the SNP's refusal to respect the outcome.

If that's your idea of the greatest democratic process that these islands have ever seen you can keep it.

'If that's your idea of the greatest democratic process that these islands have ever seen you can keep it.'

I blame Cameron. He just rolls over. Why didn't he stipulate that there would have to be a minimum period before the same question could be asked again?

"Love bombing" was the best they had. It was embarrassing. 300 years together and nothing better than love bombing and fear of losing jobs? How sad. How pathetic.

That is why I say UKIP will be the future opposition because they say what they think and they have no fear of challenging anyone in debate - unlike Cameron.

I've really enjoyed reading this discussion today; I've been reflecting on the issues and thinking about Nicola Sturgeon's speech again.

Just thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering, did she say it because she had to? It's an issue that has to be commented on - she can't not - and of course it keeps folk who are ideologically pro-independence on side and maybe even brings in some new party members. Does that make sense? (Possibly not - it's very waffly).

Something else as well. Thinking about the results, Aberdeenshire (which included Alex Salmond's constituency) came out as a strong 'no'. So I think there's some truth to the suggestion that voters are happy to see the SNP running Holyrood but don't want to give them any more power.

And while I was with the SNP and the Scottish people who wanted independence, I'm not with the SNP any more, now that I have heard that they may want to veto my vote to choose to leave the EU.

And I think that Cameron and his so-called Conservatives and Gordon Brown and the Labour luvvies could easily roll over, so spineless are the whole lot of them, that they would restrict my right to choose to leave the EU or not.

UKIP won't allow that. At least they will put up a fight. They might lose, but they will give it their best shot and it won't involve "love bombing" and mention of Olympic medal winners and any other patronising nonsense.

If it wasn't Cameron it would be whoever was in power at Westminster - they were effectively forced into a corner from the moment that we got our Parliament, but that's democracy.

I agree flip - the NE voted overwhelming to reject independence, despite it being AS's constituency. An SNP Govt is one thing - but independence was (and remains) a step too far.