Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wish there was a way to make young women aim higher in their choice of boyfriends? (distressing story about child abuse)

222 replies

ReputableBiscuit · 12/11/2014 16:07

First off, this young mother is categorically not to blame for what this awful man did to her child, and ALL the guilt belongs to him for his unforgivable crime and attempts to hide it. But AIBU to just wish she'd had more self-respect than to let a man with 38 prior convictions into her (and her baby's) life? How can we empower emotionally vulnerable young women to protect themselves from dangerous men? This happened local to me. It's so bloody sad.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30019395

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 16/11/2014 19:04

BertieBotts, that was one of the best posts I have ever read.

CrispyFern · 16/11/2014 20:24

I don't know, Half of me thinks they should be in jail (but absolutely not for longer than the murderer!) and the other half of me thinks that nobody can know how scared they were, and what they thought was best to do, to try not to make things worse.

It's very sad.

BertieBotts · 16/11/2014 20:26

Blush Thank you, which one?

PetulaGordino · 16/11/2014 20:47

from the limited amount i have read about this sad case, it sounds as though the child's mother (and wider circle) was (to use erin pizzey's phrase - i know she's said some dodgy stuff but this is apt) "marinated in violence". it totally skews the judgement and assessment of risk when a degree of violence is normalised. i have to agree with everything cailin has said here

mathanxiety · 16/11/2014 21:37

Good question when I look back.. The last one really stood out though imo.

Chunderella · 17/11/2014 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fromparistoberlin73 · 17/11/2014 11:46

Mrsjayy has it spot on

I dont know if we let people of the hook by assuming that liking a shit fella = being abused

maybe she was not abused- and is just the product of the society that MrsJ describes

I dont know if this woman was abused- but the fact she went onto to facebook shortly to defend him makes me question this

BertieBotts · 17/11/2014 13:37

Really, because the fact she defended him makes me think that she WAS being abused. What person in their right mind would defend someone who had just murdered their child? Nobody - she wasn't in her right mind, at all.

YY to the marinated in violence thing skewing judgement. It absolutely does. What you perceive as normal etc. When people condemn others for failing to leave an abusive relationship, failing to protect children etc they often come from a position of "If I was in that situation I would feel.... and I would do ....." rather than saying "That person in that situation is feeling ..... and is doing ....., how can we help?" They take the face value of "she's choosing a man over her children", "she doesn't care" "she likes it" etc which is so - frustrating! It's a melting pot of emotions, drives, expectations, fear, under the surface. Honest to God, most mothers in this situation if not all of them believe they are doing the best thing they can do for their children by remaining in such a relationship.

You might say "But surely it's totally obvious that staying in such a relationship is dangerous and/or harmful for the child". Yes, it is obvious to you. Which just shows such a lack of understanding, a mountain of privilege. Imagine - just imagine, how shit your life would have to have been to make you think that's okay, or what kind of a drawn out, damaging, mind fucking process of experience you would have to go through to make you believe that it is okay. People live like that, they don't get dropped into abusive situations straight from a nice comfortable privileged life. Sometimes they are lucky and wind up with a person who is not abusive, or not as abusive. Sometimes they wind up with a dangerous bastard. If they are unable to recognise that, then they are also unable to protect themselves OR children. Which means that somebody else needs to do it. Two ways to do that. Remove the children, or remove the threat. Our current system removes the children, often too late.

Yes she should have protected her child, but clearly she was unable. Unwilling? I can't believe it. It goes against every instinct, and there are myriad ways a woman would be more likely to not protect her child if this were the case. Unable, easily. Just because the barriers were psychological rather than physical does not make them any less real. We would do well to remember that - it's the exact same prejudice which makes our mental health care totally inadequate.

Daniel Pelka's mother was unwilling to protect her child. This mother and others like her, I can't be so sure.

fromparistoberlin73 · 17/11/2014 17:19

bertie- I expect you are right. Look at him, look at his track record- look at what he did. he was probably a violent, psychotic, sociopathic bullying cxxt at home-

whattheseithakasmean · 17/11/2014 17:29

I don't think anyone suggested that the father is absolved of responsibility, but the OP is about the mother, who let the violent murderer into her child's life. Neither parent is absolved of responsibility, in my opinion.

BertieBotts · 17/11/2014 17:30

We have no system to translate abuse into something quantifiable and countable, which is why nothing is done about it - it's too hard. Without bruises and police reports you can't do anything. With 37 convictions, there was absolutely a trail there. It seems crazy that he was allowed access to the general public. I can't read the reports because they are awful :( but I have skim read one and it says one of the convictions was for DV.

Clare's Law might have helped in this situation - but it's doubtful that this woman would have used it (I don't know whether it was available in this area?) or been able to listen - again it puts the focus on women to act by getting away, rather than police being able to build up a picture of an individual and prevent them from being able to inflict future harm.

This is interesting though, that I found while googling (I had forgotten the name of Clare's Law) www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/28/domestic-violence-new-law-jail-term

Nancy66 · 17/11/2014 17:36

the mother in this case knew about the boyfriend's past. She didn't care. She just wanted a boyfriend.

BreakingDad77 · 17/11/2014 17:40

Can remember an episode of 999 whats your emergency and there was a women saying words to the effect of 'yes he hits me all, all my boyfriends did, all men hit women' and then not pressing charges i think?

How do you go about challenging that behavior in men, and women who accept it?

Chunderella · 17/11/2014 18:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 17/11/2014 18:23

Well even if you believe it, if you started seeing men getting locked up for hitting women, yes you might think it unfair/ridiculous/wrong at first but after a while you'd then start to see the difference between violent men and non violent men, it would become more normal that violent men get sentenced and it would change expectations.

whattheseithakasmean · 17/11/2014 19:21

Chunderella, I don't absolve the father of responsibility. Or the mother. They both failed their child.

Chunderella · 17/11/2014 19:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 17/11/2014 20:15

Admittedly I only skim read the article, but wasn't the father around? Because one article I read said that the father, not the stepfather, was there in intensive care with his daughter when she died.

Chunderella · 17/11/2014 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 17/11/2014 20:32

I really don't want to read it, they're all very daily mail lurid details etc and it's upsetting. But yes general cases, it's still an issue.

I found it worrying that I didn't know who XP had hanging around DS when he used to have contact, but realistically there was absolutely nothing I could do. I did actually raise concerns on one occasion because I knew that XP's new girlfriend was known to SS, but I was told just to leave it and not worry and I was probably imagining things.

carlsonrichards · 17/11/2014 20:48

'Admittedly I only skim read the article, but wasn't the father around? Because one article I read said that the father, not the stepfather, was there in intensive care with his daughter when she died.'

The mother had already split with the child's biological father by the time Madison was born. She listed her then boyfriend/man du jour (Are you noticing a pattern here? I am) as the father on Madison's birth certificate.

It wasn't until some time later the biological father had a DNA test and was found to be the biological father.

The murderer was wearing a tag when she took up with him, he even had his address switched to her with the parole board, so she was aware he was a criminal. He also had two children himself.

She left Madison with the boyfriend to go out, and all-too-common scenario when it comes to children being murdered.

There was one young woman in England who left her daughter with her boyfriend so she could go to America for her 21st birthday, despite the man's having sent her a number of texts on other occassions when she left her child with him to go out that he was not happy to look after the child, whom he then murdered.

BreakingDad77 · 18/11/2014 10:39

Great honest post bertiebots

This pursuit of a relationship rings true for me as I know someone whose mother 'appeared' to have turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse metted out by her new partner to her tween child, he also assaulted another female.

He was jailed, she lost her kids and when he got out of jail she got back with him immediately.

What I find quite disturbing is that at the time the maternal grandmother said the daughter 'must have led him on'

New posts on this thread. Refresh page