to wish there was a way to make young women aim higher in their choice of boyfriends? (distressing story about child abuse)

[ReputableBiscuit]

First off, this young mother is categorically not to blame for what this awful man did to her child, and ALL the guilt belongs to him for his unforgivable crime and attempts to hide it. But AIBU to just wish she'd had more self-respect than to let a man with 38 prior convictions into her (and her baby's) life? How can we empower emotionally vulnerable young women to protect themselves from dangerous men? This happened local to me. It's so bloody sad.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30019395

I think every person needs to use common sense about who they bring into their lives, and exercise a degree of cynicism about things that you are told. That applies to everyone; male, female, young, old...

I think we should be teaching all children basic safety and common sense. I plan to teach my son about nasty people, and how they can appear nice, and I plan to teach my daughter about nasty people who appear nice.

When I was 12, I got to watch a master manipulator take what he wanted, and to leave carnage and tears in his wake. I was too young to be deemed useful, so I was ignored, but he messed with my parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles (he was a second cousin). At 12 I couldn't believe how easily he was taking all these grown ups in. Thankfully, someone outside the family really didn't like him, as he was shot dead on his doorstep (something to do with drugs or sleeping with a kingpin's wife, we never got the full story!).

Maybe I should consider myself fortunate that I saw a decent amount of emotional abuse at an early age, and I made the decision never to tolerate any of that cr*p.

I don't think you should consider yourself fortunate that you saw a decent amount of emotional abuse at an early age Amber.

You saw a process of manipulation playing out among your relatives. It could have been that your second cousin had some sort of hold over the people he manipulated or that because they loved him they wanted to make things better somehow. Either way, in the end the person in the wrong was your second cousin.

Do you think the fact that women themselves are on here discussing, not the atrocities of male violence, but the poor choices women make, has anything do with those sort of attitudes you encountered Tinkly?

cailindana well yes. He sure as hell wouldn't have come in my home and been left alone with my children.
Not that there really needs to be a register. Local gossip usually takes care of that.
Newsflash - habitual criminals with that sort of criminal record generally aren't very nice people. They don't really care about other people, they use them. They put them in danger. Ifyou think that's an acceptable enviroment for young children then you must be the one with low standards. Myself and my children deserve better ,so it's not something I'd ever accept.
Disclaimer - some people are unlucky and drift into crime and try and better themselves. Some get rehabilitated, with a lot of hard work all round, and good luck to them.
There's absolutely no indication that is true of this man.

Fatlazy, you say you're a single mother, how did that come about? Did you choose to be a single mother or did it come about through other circumstances?

I don't know Cailin. I suppose men have always been more violent than women, and 100 years ago it was reasonably acceptable for a man to knock his wife and kids about.

I suppose women, historically have had little protection from such men and their only defence has been their ability to make good choices.

I would argue that historically women have had little protection from such men and the only way to make themselves feel better about that has been the illusion of their ability to avoid violence by making "good" choices.

Now is the time, IMO, to stop banging on about how women are responsible for avoiding men's violence and start examining why men are so violent, why they get away with so many violent acts, why they continue to commit violence even after being punished many times and why, even after they do something absolutely unforgivable like killing a small child, or raping someone (thinking of the rapist Ched Evans here) they are still welcomed back into society and people are still finding ways to point the finger at women.

Okay as a single mother I disagreed with the mothers actions. She moved in with this man after only 6 months and allowed him to look after her alone...no way would I allow any man to move in after a mere 6 months or look after my daughter alone.

I blame the man 100% but I also blame the mother for not being sensible enough to protect her daughter. We all know there are a lot of bad men out there and as females we can't be so trusting.

Sad but this is the world we live in as females.

How can you blame the man 100% and also blame the mother Rebecca. Either you blame the man 100% in which case there is no blame left for the mother or you place some of the blame on the man and some on the mother. What percentage of blame goes to the mother - is it 50/50, or more like 70/30?

He was wearing an electronic tag when she met him. This poor kid had three father figures in her life already.

Seems to be a lot of children murderd by their mothers' man du jour.

Cailin I almost always agree with everything you post but I'm struggling here. Of course he was responsible that's why he's in prison and the mother isn't.

But she knew he was violent and he was wearing an electronic tag. Would you let a violent criminal you've met a few months before look after your children alone? Course you bloody wouldn't.

Saying society downplays male violence - which I agree with - and therefore women should be absolved from the responsibility of protecting their small children from that violence is a step too far for me.

sounds a bit victim blaming to me, though he was certainlly a poor choice of babysitter

Nonethless I would prefer to teach men not kick the living shit out of 2 year olds personally -

but I 100% agree with winterbells too

I agree with everything CailinDana has said on this thread.

I've lived long enough to see women blamed for male violence again and again and again. I'm sick of it.

given that 94% of murders are committed by men- we clearly have an issue whereby the "education" needs to be towards the men

I get it though- whats easier to teach?

a young, ebmittered, feral, violent hardeneed criminal
a vulnerable, ill educated girl with low self esteem

We should do both.

It makes sense to teach women to make better choices, so they can bring up their sons and daughters in safe, happy homes and break this cycle of violence. Men who abuse and hurt little children have mostly had terrible childhoods themselves.

A man who is continually violent is like a mad dog though; they should throw away the key. And I think child murder should carry the death penalty; so often it seems to actually carry a lesser sentence than adult murder.

Sorry, I was on my phone. That was supposed to be a at the end of my post.

Who's absolving women of responsibility bigkids? Women most certainly have a responsibility towards their children. I am just sick of seeing threads like this - post after post about what women need to do when it was a man who beat this poor child to death.
Tinkly are you suggesting women are also responsible for ensuring these men don't exist in the first place?

I really want to agree with you. But I am struggling - moving away from this case because I've not read enough about it. Hypothetically, if I left my children with someone I knew to be a paedophile, shouldn't i be given intensive intervention so I don't do it again? Even though the crime was solely committed by the man, and he alone should go to prison?

I don't know what I think.

I don't think it about blame Caillin. It is a problem in society. The best way to change society is through mothers (it's what overseas aid agencies do when they want to help a community, educate the mothers).

Like someone upthread said, you are wasting your time trying to reeducate an emotionally dead 20 year old man, who had grown up with violence and poor role models. But if you try and teach young women to make better choices, less children will grow up damaged and violent.

So women can be educated but men can't?

I don't think you can educate someone out of being so fucked up that you would batter a baby. The damage has already been done in that person. I think you are more likely to have success with young women.

What do women have to learn? Surely if women had the power to stop men raping and killing they would use it? Or are we too stupid or something?

What is your big idea then Cailin. Ask all the violent men to play nice? Good luck with that one.

My friend who has a dd in her early twenties tells me she despairs of the choices her dd and friends make when it comes to men. We're talking about very highly educated women who end up with deadbeat men. My friend's dd was assaulted by her ex and her friends have been told to lose weight or they'll be dumped and so have immediately joined a gym.

My big idea is feminism. Rather than saying there's nothing we can do or women must do everything I'd rather say enough is enough.