To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

[fluffydressinggown]

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

Thanks, saintly. I was worried we were going to agree ourselves into an argument

LemonChicken I never said pd's are not real illnesses I have been misquoted.

ratheraffe, i never said YOU did. I said it has been said to me on mumsnet. Not by you. And not on this thread. And not today. But it has been said often enough that I have read with my own eyes. And I don't necessarily think saucyjack was quoting you either. There are OFTEN very misleading things stated on mumsnet about PDs.

I would consider autism and ASD a learning disability which although has things in common with mental health problems are not the same as personality disorders.

Yes but mental health problems are not only personality disorders. mental health has many things under the umbrella term. So yes it is a mental health issue.

BPD diagnosis here. i am confused by the current swell of 'personality disorders' being used in crime shows etc as the obvious reason for people doing terrible things. i agree that it's also a favourite of armchair psychiatrists.

my BPD makes my life complicated and overwhelming. relationships are hard, as is looking after myself properly. however, so far i have managed not to go on a random killing spree.

luckily, i also have 'real' mental illnesses so people have to take me seriously...(yes, this is a joke)

it just makes me tired - it's definitely a label used for a huge range of behaviours by people with no clinical expertise.

LemonChicken,

Just to add to your most recent post it took psychiatrists who monitored me for 10 years for bipolar an entire decade to Dx the borderline.

If they had Dxd it quicker, I would have been able to access the correct support and treatment. However once they did Dx it I got the psychotherapy and am now just borderline traits.

I want to add that one issue I have with Mumsnet is users playing Dr Phil on other users as this can misfire badly. According to MN I have a sociopathic PD. This is despite being examined by numerous consultant psychiatrists and psychologists, none of whom have spotted the fact I am a sociopath. I found it somewhat ironic having suffered from MH problems which occurred as a result of being raised by a dad who is a genuine sociopath who was very violent.

Arguing that you are not 'diagnosing' is semantic obfuscation.

Don't be ridiculous Annie. You're the one who talked about "If a psychiatrist diagnosed them so flippantly and at a similar distance". Clinical diagnosis comes from extensive interview between a psychiatrist and someone having personality difficulties.

Diagnosing an OP's relationship problem is a different kettle of fish. Rather crucially, I would have thought, the person posting for help isn't the one with "inflexible patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving" and a "limited range of emotions, attitudes and behaviours". She's the one asking for help in trying to deal with that.

Unsurprisingly, rigid patterns of behaviour are predictable. Pointing such patterns out can help an OP to come to terms with her reality. As Goldmandra wrote, experience leads some MNers to recognise certain patterns. Getting the disordered personality diagnosed isn't the objective of support threads - they exist to help the OP, not to perform remote diagnoses at one remove! All the same, I know several previous posters whose problematic partners have subsequently been diagnosed with Cluster B disorders. That's nothing but a side-effect of Mumsnet's collective wisdom :)

exwife-

I would buy some books on DBT and mindfulness, if you have not already done so.

DBT is not routinely offered on the NHS, but it should be.

I practised DBT for a year and now I am only traits. I attribute most of my recovery to the DBT and mindfulness.

As a parent of a teen with Emerging BPD then yes it's not always clear cut. Dd2 is nearly 15 and so a lot of her behaviour is 'teenage' and not BPD but it can often be hard to tell.

I agree it is quite offensive to try and label every naughty teen with BPD. It is a very complex thing.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, raltheraffe.

My dd is just coming to the end of her course of DBT. It has been very helpful, but I am worried about what will happen after it ends.

I think the problem is that PD/ MH problems are often trotted out as excuses for bad behaviour.

But PD/ MH problems do not equal bad behaviour. Just as bad behaviour does not equal PD/ MH problems.

They need to be considered as separate entities. Lumping them all together is irresponsible at best, utterly thick at worst.

raltheraf thank you - i'll look into that. my psychiatrist had actually kept the BPD diagnosis from me as she 'didn't think it would benefit me' to know! i found out accidentally from my GP...

it was actually a huge relief to me as it explained a LOT about who i am. i've been left dangling over any support however, as there is no money at all for therapy where i live.

Nutcracker:

I recommend you buy her this:

www.amazon.co.uk/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131

It is quite a heavy going book and took me a few months to get through, but it is brilliant. You have to spend 30 minutes a day on the DBT exercises (I still do it now even though I am only traits) but it is worth the effort.

Completely agree, if someone can function as an independently living adult and only directs unreasonable and unacceptable behaviour towards one person, then its not a personality disorder

I stand by what I say. If only one person ( normally your partner) is the only person on the receiving end of a personality disorder but you are perfectly capable of being reasonable with everyone else (including people close to you) then you are selecting how you treat them. If you truly had a PD your behaviour might deteriorate in the home environment, but it wouldn't only be your partner on the receiving end (unless you are living on a desert island and there are only two inhabitants).

No, they don't need to be considered as separate entities if the bad behaviours are following certain well-worn patterns.

If you demand that posters ignore patterns of bad behaviour, how the bloody hell do you expect them to help people having relationship problems?

Half of you seem to be completely missing the point that relationship threads are there to support the partner of the unpleasantly-behaving person.

exWife, many clinicians would now diagnose you as 'emotionally dysregulated' rather than BPD. I second the recommendations for DBT with mindfulness. Good luck :)

Although I still have my traits I do not use them as an excuse to treat other people like crap. In fact when I used to have the pd I had something I called my "red zone" which is what I describe when I am so angry and wound up I am about to blow my top to let off steam. I do not go into the red zone any more, but when I used to I always removed myself from a situation and verbally disengaged with people. I would walk the dogs or something until I calmed down.
I do not like it when people think a Dx means they can treat people like crap. There is one particular Facebook business owner who does this. She is rude, nasty and defamatory about her customers and then posts that she has bipolar so this is part of her illness. As someone who has been sectioned twice with bipolar being rude and defamatory towards people is not part of the diagnosis. That is called being a twat.

Thank you raffe

Chipped is correct. You cannot have a pd which is selective for one person only.
I was once involved in a DV relationship and the twat concerned said he got red mist and could not control himself. Bullshit. If a 6 foot 4 guy pissed him off he did not get violent then, the violence was selective for women only.

IMO autism and personality disorders do not excuse bad behaviour but they could have implications for what constitutes bad behaviour.

End all internet diagnoses, I say.

I have a child with autism and it enrages me when people pronounce others as on the spectrum as if they are qualified to do so. Same with mental health conditions.

However, having known people with personality disorders, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Same for bipolar disorder.

Some people with these conditions genuinely DO behave like utter shits when they are unwell, and it is very difficult to know where to draw the line in terms of cutting someone some slack and excusing terrible behaviour.

I find the same issues arise with my autistic DS. There are times when we have to draw a line under certain atrocious behaviour and realise that he was struggling because of his condition, and times when we have to say 'absolutely not acceptable, whatever the reasons'...and its often a hard call to make.

Never a reason to put up with abuse, though (slightly different as a parent - DS has hit me and sworn at me and been foul towards me at times, but I wont turn my back on him)

Thank god for some common sense, Bells! Yes, your children are the ONLY people to whom you owe unconditional love. No adult is entitled to infinite compassion from anyone else ... something some PD sufferers have a hard time grasping.

Slightly different note - I do think personality disorders can sometimes manifest in a person behaving atrociously towards those closest to them, but moderating their behaviour for others.

May not be a popular opinion, and I am certainly not being an apologist for abusive men, but with Borderline personality disorder, for example, it can mean extreme attachment/abandonment issues, which manifest in the person creating very dramatic, up and down, all or nothing romantic relationships. They may not have that sort of relationships with, say, their bods at work - so can come across as being quite reasonable and rational to all but the person closest to them.

*boss

I liked bods