To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

[fluffydressinggown]

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

Very depressing that people think like that.

There are, I believe, proportionately more parents of children with ASD-type SNs posting on Mumsnet, thanks to a committed and brilliantly supportive group of posters (one of whom is right above me) who have helped me and many others unlock knowledge and take on an unhelpful and frustrating support system. Like attracts like: google searches work.

How offensive to say that I and many, many others have 'medicalised my child with a label'.

As for I'm being soft - ODFOD.

Some of them probably are a bit cyclothymic (the mildest form of the illness) but most are just using it to get attention or excuse bad behaviour.

Could you supply a link to the peer reviewed evidence that most people who claim to have bipolar disorder are using it to get attention or to excuse bad behaviour?

I suspect a member of my family has NPD. Not such a few traits- the full blown thing. Before someone pointed me in the direction of NPD (which I'd never heard of) her behaviour just seemd truly incomprehensible. Her deceit, self aggrandisation, lies, the hidden rage and failure to take responsibility just made any sort of relationship with her thoroughly awful and incredibly difficult. A lot of her behaviour made no sense. It wasn't just with family members but colleagues and friends as well.

Once I had the lightbulb moment things became easier. I found ways to deal with her. I realised she would never react in a normal way to anything really. I stopped expecting her to behave like other people would. She still behaves like a total bitch but it's more complicated than that. I have stopped expecting any 'normal' reaction to things. I understand why. I feel sad for her kids and her parents. Before I heard of NPD it was making me depressed trying to deal with her, getting angry.

As some-one who was only diagnosed 10 days ago with a complex Neurological Disorder of Aspergers Dyspraxia/ Dyslexia and the Suggestion of Irlen syndrome and meets the Criteria of the DSM-5 and ICD-10 due to difficulties in

1. Social communication
2. Social Interaction
3. Flexibility in Thought
4. Unusual Sensory Experience
5. Difficulties with Reading
6. Visual Disturbance
7. Fine and Gross Motor Coordination difficulties.

I find the attitude and comments of those claiming that people want a label for their children offensive and totally in accurate. The last thing I and most people suffering from Autism or symptoms is to have a label attached to us.
I have been trying to be "normal" for 41 years, so why would I or anyone want to label them selves or their children with Autism. You don't win any badges or awards , in fact by being diagnosed you are opening yourself up to ridicule, discrimination and ignorance. This was shown when I told a friend about my diagnosis, her response was my "disease" (Not Condition) was like being an Alcoholic. This shows the total lack of awareness or understanding from the majority of people and sadly from the supposed educated people of Mumsnet.

I have an 'official' diagnosis of borderline personality disorder - dx at 19 and reassessed at 28 and still bpd. Most people are unaware I have this disorder as I appear just like everyone else. In fact even professionals who know I have bpd and are working with me because of my mental health condition seem to forget as I present as just a normal youngish woman. But if they hit one of my triggers of abandonment, rejection, disrespect then my defensive side with sharp speaking and not caring how my words affect others - then it's like they see me for the first time. I am heavily medicated and have a CPN and had two extensive periods of therapy. I have never hurt anyone else and all research says bpd are more likely to harm themselves than anyone else. My bpd arises from a horrific case of abuse and although I can hide it, at home it dominates my life and makes me miserable. I get annoyed that it is the done thing to diagnose teen shooters in American schools with borderline personality disorder.

My son has an 'official' diagnosis of ASD - attends special school, non verbal - this seems to be another target of serial killers etc - oh he was probably autistic and had no empathy - there's a whole world of different between finding it difficult to deal with emotions and going out and shooting someone.

I think the problem is there is a general misunderstanding around many mental health conditions (I include ASD because it seems anxiety dominates my son's life). I think it is better to educate people where they have gap in their knowledge - I know before I has my DS that I've said the ignorant 'well we're all on the spectrum somewhere' or 'he's not good at relationships maybe he's Asperger's. The only way to dispel myself of these notions was through education.

Both alcoholism and Asperger's are disorders as defined by DSM, however they are different disorders.

Goldmandra the increased incidence of self-diagnosis in bipolar is something currently being investigated. As someone who used to work as a medical researcher the absence of a clinical trial does not mean something does not exist.
The other issue is bipolar is now being redefined and new categories of the disorder are being created, which coincides with pharmaceutical companies, the people who publish medical research (with their own financial interest) placing far more emphasis on bipolar as the patent for tricyclics ran out.

I agree 100% OP. I find it SO offensive. They may as well say all who have Autism Aperger's etc, tend to cheat on their partners and assault them too. Far too often excuses are made for men's bad behaviour and Im sad that in 2014 this attitude still exists

I think the problem is there is a general misunderstanding around many mental health conditions - I couldn't agree more, JJXM. Mind & Rethink do good work here, and I always spread their messages as widely as I can :)

For my next comments, the highly sensitive might prefer to look away

McG, you said of your relative: "A lot of her behaviour made no sense. ... I found ways to deal with her. I realised she would never react in a normal way"

This is hugely important, imo. The old-fashioned word for some Personality Disorders is "mad" Subjects with such impressive lack of self-insight will never seek diagnosis and are, for the most part, unlikely to be sectioned. When I'm talking to the partner of someone like this who will, along with their children, have been torturing themselves with agonised soul-searching "Why? What have I done wrong? How can I make him see?", then I am more than happy to suggest there's actually no external logic to the behaviour. If I can point the unhappy poster to descriptions of disordered behaviour that match her lived experience, so much the better.

I'll go a step further - privately - when the abnormal partner seems to be "just an abusive arse". Being an abusive arse is not a successful life strategy in peacetime. I figure, therefore, that an abusive arse who continues with their maladaptive behaviour - despite predictably adverse consequences - has a personality disorder (no capitals.) Whether or not they'd be diagnosed with a mental disorder by the clinician they will refuse to see, they display inflexible patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving which cause problems for them and people around them.

If I happen to know of a diagnostic matching the described behaviours, I will point my reader towards it. Not because I think I'm a telepathic internet psychiatrist. Because it will help the poster.

Smoke! You got your diagnosis! :)

Thank You Garlic. I have commented about it on the previous Relationship thread. The diagnosis states (this will shock some people! ) that I am a black and white thinker and if I am presented with a "fact" will repeat it time and time again whether it is true or not.

I do think the "profiling" of ASD/Autism sufferers as potential "criminals" is very unfair and borders on discrimination!.

"this will shock some people" Not many

Agree that ignorant people can just reach for some MH buzzword they've heard of ... As JJXM said, it's a problem of education.

Goldmandra the increased incidence of self-diagnosis in bipolar is something currently being investigated. As someone who used to work as a medical researcher the absence of a clinical trial does not mean something does not exist.

It also doesn't justify making sweeping judgements about 'most people'.

I am allowed to have my opinion Goldmandra and am sorry that you seem to be taking offence at it.

You are as free to express a sweeping judgement as I am to challenge it and I will do so when I think that judgement encourages a view that can do harm to people with MH problems and invisible disabilities like ASD.

garlic Being an abusive are is not a successful strategy in peacetime
But for many many partners of mumsnet posters it seems to be very effective...they get a willing slave pandering to their every whim.
and when the slave asks " is this normal ?" some people start with the armchair diagnoses, rather than saying Ltb.

Self-diagnosis and the extension of bipolar to....bipolar 6 is the best thing that has happened to big pharma since the mid 1990s. Unnecessarily drugging people up is great for their profits, so you stick to your mantra that these people who self-diagnose and function at a high level are ill. I am sure there are plenty of drug company sponsored trials which will back you all the way.

I am not saying that any group of people is definitely ill. I choose not make sweeping judgements about people about whom I know virtually nothing.

and here was me thinking Garlic meant something along the lines of....

well he could just be an abusive arse, but judging from what the OP has said, many things seem to fit in with a possibility of a personality disorder, why don't I then say to the OP that

a) decide for yourself he just an abusive arse and LTB
or
b) ask him to go to a pdoc and see if there is some underlying mental health reason for his arsiness.

b1) no MH dx, he is just an arse, revert to a) and LTB
b2) he gets a diagnosis of a pd and commits to a course of treatment whereby the OP now has a new possibility
c) stay together and attempt to work things out.

then again, it's so much easier just to say "LTB he is a twat"

I don't even believe in reincarnation.... but if I did, I would never want to come back to this world as a man with a mental health problem in a relationship with an average MN female poster.

sorry, that was in response to choccyp1g

I like the way choccypig has said go to a pdoc and see if there is a Dx of pd, like that is something they just hand out at the first appt. It took me 10 years which included 3 IP admissions to get my borderline Dx. It is incredibly difficult to diagnose any MH issue and with bp and Schizophrenia it takes an average of 6 years from when someone starts with clinical symptoms to get a Dx.

I was once in an abusive relationship with a guy who had a Dx of bipolar. It only got violent once and he got arrested and charged. I am convinced his abusive behaviour was more related to his upbringing than anything else. He never knew his dad and his mum was very violent.

ratheraffe, that who was me who said that, not choccy. And I didn't mean to imply that a pd dx was given out in half an hour. If you read back in the thread I actually scoffed at suggestions of instant dx-ing.

However, I have 3 very close family members with a pd dx, and two friends with a pd dx. None of them took anywhere near 6 or 10 years to get dx-ed. I would think all were diagnosed in well under a year. One I know for a fact was diagnosed in 3 months. Appointments being once or twice weekly during that period, say 18 or so appts? Another didn't take that much longer. 6 months probably, but she only had weekly sessions and I am fairly sure in those 6 months that it wouldn't have been 26 sessions as she went away for a few weeks, maybe 22 or so at most.

I have no idea what the norm is, but surely it doesn't take everyone 10 years to get a pd diagnosis if they are actually at the point of seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Is the state of UK MH care that bad?

I am really impressed you got it sorted in under a year.
I first saw a pdoc in 1999 and was ?bipolar. I only got Dx BP in 2003 when I got sectioned and got locked up for 6 months. It took until 2009 to get the borderline dx.
I should add that because I was working as a doctor I got shunted to educational psychologists, deanery appointed specialists, lots more specialists than an average patient. I got downgraded to traits after only a few months, which casts doubts on whether I actually had it at all.