To expect dd's Brownie leaders to take contact numbers on a trip to a theme park?

[aleC4]

Dd went on a trip today with her Brownies to Drayton Manor. It was a big Guiding thing with 10,000 Rainbows, Brownies and Guides.
Obviously the weather was awful and she got absolutely soaked, she got through two pairs of trousers both of which feel like she has laid in a puddle. I know they can't do anything about the rain and I wouldn't dream of complaining to them about the weather.
However - I was a little concerned when I left her that there only appeared to be young girls in charge and no Brown Owl. However they are official Brownie leaders and there seemed enough of them. Apparently Brown Owl was ill and when they got there no-one had the tickets. They had to wait in the pouring rain while another leader from another pack had to come back from the park to get them in.
She has been on 3 rides all day which seemed strange to me as we have been on really, really busy days and always got plenty done. She said 3 of the leaders don't like the other one (in my opinion she shouldn't even know this!) and the one they don't like kept going off with children. Because of this they had to walk round for ages looking for this other leader because she wouldn't answer her phone.
They had to eat their packed lunch outside which although maybe not their fault seems ridiculous.
Sorry I am going on, now for the bit I am really cross about. They arrived back early, I'm not sure how early because I only have the word of a 7 year old, but in her words it was 'ages'. None of the other Guides, Brownies or Rainbows were there, they had already been picked up and I was 10 minutes early. It was raining and the girls looked freezing.
I walked up to the group and gave dd a cuddle (she was soaked!) and started walking away with her. I realised that none of the leders had even noticed she had gone as they were chatting to each other. I went back and told them I was taking her.
I asked dd if they were early as we were driving away. She said yes we got back really early and we had to wait. I asked where everyone else was and she said their leaders had rung their parents to come early. I asked her why we hadn't been rung and she said the leaders had not got any of their contact numbers!!!
I couldn't believe it. We had to provide all the details with the permission slip. They had been to a theme park over an hour away, all day, in the pouring rain with no-one but teenagers in charge and they had taken no-one's contact numbers. Please tell me we are NBU to be spitting feathers. Dh is absolutely fuming an ready to go in all guns blazing next week when she goes to Brownies. Obviously we will have to check the details but this is not right is it?

And this is why i stopped being a leader, yes the association and its adult leaders have a responsibility to safeguard your daughters, we will do this, i have never met a guider whom did not have this as her primary concern. However i got sick to death of the parents who seemed to expect us to treat their children like they were little porcelain dolls. Yes i know she has hay fever, yes i will give her anti histamine and let her roll around on the grass at camp and put flowers in her hair and sleep with them in if that's what she wants and she will be fine. Yes i will let her splash in mud and get her clothes dirty and wet as long as she has a change of clothes with her. This is why i ask you to NOT send her in full designer gear that you want us to treat like the crown jewels. She will not melt in the rain.

I haven't read past SeptemberBabies post at 13.59, but if that's the response of a district commissioner then I won't be encouraging DD2 to go to Brownies when she's old enough.

What a shitty post to a mum who has legitimate concerns about the welfare of her daughter.

'Is your daughter planning on staying at Brownies and maybe going on to Guides. Your "one of those Mums" attitude will stick to your daughter like glue. There is no need in this case to inflict it on her.'

Unless I've read this wrong and you're actually saying the OP's attitude will be taken on by her DD (which going on the rest of the post probably isn't the case) it's effectively saying that if any parents do dare to bring up concerns they have about their DDs then it'll stick to them and their DD like shit, and never be forgotten.

I really hope I have misunderstood it because I don't like what it would say about the people who run the groups.

YANBU OP to wonder what went on and of course you should ask about it.

As a leader with girlguiding I hope the info I gave you was useful.
I strongly refute the idea however that the organisation or it's people do not like being question or challenged. Quite the opposite. Indeed the home contact system some have mentioned came into being after a a review of procedures following a serious accident involving a Guide group many years ago.

You've described your view of the situation. Some of us have given you the view of how it should have been. Only you can decide whether there's enough of difference to query it.
If you do, you have my fullest support - not because I think your leaders were horrifically irresponsible in anything you've described but because parents need to have confidence in everything we do, otherwise there is no point in us volunteering to provide these opportunities if no kids are sent along.

Niamh - why mention designer gear? The OP has clearly said that she sent her dd in uniform, exactly as she was told to do, and provided her with a change of clothing.

And in her OP she said, "...Obviously the weather was awful and she got absolutely soaked, she got through two pairs of trousers both of which feel like she has laid in a puddle. I know they can't do anything about the rain and I wouldn't dream of complaining to them about the weather...". Here was NO suggestion that she wanted her dd treated like a porcelain doll.

But she is worried that, as far as she knows, none of the Leaders on the trip had contact numbers for the parents; she had no idea that the trip was back early, so her soaking-wet dd waited in the cold for over half an hour; and that there didn't seem to be any formal procedure to make sure the Brownies left with their parents at the end - and as far as I am aware, was asking if these were the correct procedures and if not, whether she should raise her concerns with someone.

We are unable to really comment as we are not the leaders in question and, I am a leader, we all do things slightly differently but still following the rules.
As Brown Owl was ill the other leaders may not have had physical forms with contact details but an emailed copy due to the late change of plan.

As others have said for 16 Brownies they would have needed 2 adults over 18 one with a Guiding role the other could have been a friend or parent to enable trip to happen. I have run and organised trips since I was 18 so probably had parents think I was too young and irresponsible.

One pp suggested parents emailed to say thanks in nearly 20 years of being a leader and have run days out, weekends away, weeks away, both home and abroad and very rarely do you get thanked but people are quick to criticise. Last one I recall was girls were bought back by train whilst I drove camp kit and everyones personal kit back in a van. I arrived 10 mins after expected at the end of a week at camp, cooking for 20 and a 3 hour drive, and most parents moaned they had had to wait. I refused to take the unit away the following year.

The thing is, I think the OP has already made her mind up.
She has decided that the leaders were too young, that they didn't have access to contact info and that the children could have left without parents being aware.

Despite many people explaining the Home Contact system and other likely explanations for the various complaints she had, she was not really willing to consider any of them. Instead, she has decided that people are criticising her and the movement is not open to question.

I think it is highly likely that she will not enquire about the days happenings with the Brownie leader, because she has already made her mind up and isn't open to hear what actually happened, never mind to perhaps alter her views. So I suspect she will go away from the event and this thread, even more convinced in her own mind that Guiding is poorly led and she is right to feel aggreieved.

And I think this will be the saddest outcome. I'm sure the Brownie leader would much prefer to be faced with an enquiry, than to know a parent is disgruntled and that the Leader has no chance to explain procedures. No organisation is perfect and it might be that some things were not as they should have been - if that is so, the Leader will want to know and put it right. Or it may well be, that things were not as simple as they seemed to the young daughter or mother arriving to collect. But if you do t ask, you will never know.

It makes no matter if the OP returns here....we can't fully answer her questions. It does matter if after reflection, she is still unhappy, but doesn't look into it further. So I hope that she will do that and try to do so with an open mind.

Op definatly trip leaders should have the contact details on them.

When my dd was involved in a fatal school trip accident unfortunately the teacher in charge was killed and all the contact details were lost in the carnage.

We heard via the internet and had no idea for hours if our girl was dead or alive.

You have every right to question the safety of a trip but equally i am in awe of these volunteers who are willing to give up their time and potentially risk being sued by parents In the event of a tragedy.

If you arnt happy them don't let her go again. But there's no guarantees In this life.

how awful 'the body'

That sounds awful Thebody.

One of the reasons why leaders must stick to Girlguiding's safeguarding policies is to avoid being sued. As long as you have followed the guidelines correctly, Girlguiding's insurance will cover you.

I took my pack to the very very wet Drayton trip on Saturday. First thing I would say is I am so glad it wasn't myself who was ill, not being able to comment on the circumstances of your Brownies pack leaders reason for the huge error made as I don't know if this was an oversight due to the sudden change in who was going along in charge on the day.i would hate to have this complaint aired on social networking sites, I would have been mortified actually. Rather a phone call to me in person to explain why the procedure was not being followed to the dot. We as leaders do have to follow guidance, all consent forms completed before the journey starts, give Brown Owl a chance to give her comments on a one to one basis and then discussions can take place on the reasons behind what happened, Parents can raise similar concerns with Commissionaires if there are still unresolved questions. It was a challenging day to say the least,queues for everything, toilets, hot drinks, getting into car park and leaving!!!!!! We were soaked and I have a £5 note in my purse still wet today!!!! but the Brownies sang all the way home on the coach and when asked if they had a good time it was a resounding YES!!

I guess the alternative was to cancel the trip and everyone lose their money.From the leaders perspective that is certainly what they should have done with the benefit of hindsight.Instead they tried to soldier on with the young leaders thinking they were doing the best they could for the kids and the families.
I just think the whole thing is unfortunate- the weather and the illness of Brown Owl, a pity people can't appreciate that.