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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:05

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 31/10/2014 16:08

Boney I think even if someone believes men can't be feminists, they should still believe feminism is for everyone.

I have 3 sons and a DH and they are all able to spot subtle sexism, sometimes before even I can.

This is largely due to all the conversations I have initiated, from a feminist point of view over the years.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 31/10/2014 16:15

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BoneyBackJefferson · 31/10/2014 16:15

Worra

I (again) agree, I will (and I suspect many others on here will) continue to do what we are doing, but will do so without any reference to feminism.

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 16:17

Going to post here exactly what I posted on the partner thread to this in FWR :

I don't post on the feminism threads because I don't fit the stereotype and I got attacked and belittled and so I walked away.

I'm sure I'm not the only one - and I would do it to any other thread where I felt attacked in the same way, so it's not just an anti feminism thing - I am very much a feminist.

I don't have a degree in feminism and I don't have the big words of posters on here, but I am, or at least was, willing to listen and learn. But not when what I am, who I am, is attacked and belittled.

MuddyBootsAndPinkCoats · 31/10/2014 16:57

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dreamingbohemian · 31/10/2014 16:57

Actually the trans threads are a good example of something I don't get in this debate.

I also find the trans threads upsetting, I'm in a minority of oh about three people probably who don't agree with most FWR posters on these issues. So I stopped posting or reading them. It's not that hard. I still go on FWR because the vast majority of it has nothing to do with those issues.

I'm curious about how many posters on this thread saw one thread they didn't like, or read one post that they felt attacked by, and just gave up on FWR altogether. I know life is too short and so in a way this is understandable. But in another way, I suspect perhaps that people come to FWR with preconceived notions about what feminists are like (angry, bolshy, strident) and as soon as they see one iota of that, they say, nope.

I think it's really unfortunate that there are so many assumptions made about feminists and that helps put people off. I almost wonder if we should have an introductions thread so people can see that some of us like pink and baking, are SAHMs, love men and fashion, etc. Maybe that would make people feel more welcome.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 31/10/2014 17:01

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Nojacketrequired · 31/10/2014 17:09

You raise a very good point, dreaming - I'm curious about how many posters on this thread saw one thread they didn't like, or read one post that they felt attacked by, and just gave up on FWR altogether.

I think quite often what you get is real life and Feminist theory locking horns. The non-FWR regular suddenly thinks, 'Shit - how to I relate my real-life experience to someone who has just written a essay?' So they can't find any common ground. So they just back down. Whereas in AIBU or other boards, it's a bit less......doctrinal, less theoretical.

MuddyBootsAndPinkCoats · 31/10/2014 17:14

This reply has been deleted

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MuddyBootsAndPinkCoats · 31/10/2014 17:15

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Nojacketrequired · 31/10/2014 17:22

I bought my daughter Catlin Moran's 'How to be a Woman' last Christmas. She still watches Made in Chelsea and Geordie Shore though Angry

msrisotto · 31/10/2014 17:29

Heh. If TV programme habits are at all related to feminism i'm a very different person than I thought. Grin

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/10/2014 17:29

"I'm curious about how many posters on this thread saw one thread they didn't like, or read one post that they felt attacked by, and just gave up on FWR altogether."

but there are quite a few on this thread who have said similar things and they are not posters that are scared off threads easily.

areyoubeingserviced · 31/10/2014 17:31

Too many narrow minded individuals

flanjabelle · 31/10/2014 17:44

Oh balls I wrote out a response earlier but it obviously didn't send. I agree that some of the advice on my thread was good as I said, but overall I was a bit disappointed due to the bunfight. I said it a lot better in the one I wrote earlier though!!!

secretsquirrels · 31/10/2014 17:48

It's the one part of MN that I read but don't post. Too scary.

Blistory · 31/10/2014 17:54

Intimidating ? Because someone I don't know holds a different point of view to me ?

Women discussing issues that affect women isn't intimidating. Having some prick at work discuss my breasts is intimidating. Being told by society that getting raped might be my own fault, is intimidating.

And sorry, this is going to sound like arrogant feminist discourse, but women frequently can't see the discrimination they face. To listen to women denying the everyday sexism and prejudices that women face is disheartening and yes, it matters enough that feminists have to call it out.

If, as a woman, you don't want to accept the harsh reality that we don't have equality never mind liberation, that's fine, but it's not humourless or simply overblown intellectual theory to want to discuss that, analyse it and do something to change it. The FWR boards give women a chance to discuss that without other distractions.

Reading and posting on FWR completely changed my views on everyday matters that affect all women. As a result, we've implemented massive changes in our organisation to ensure that our female staff don't encounter prejudice and can have a working life that works in harmony with their personal life. This was achieved by focusing on women, not men. The benefit is that men also get to take advantage of these new policies. But the reality is that they were needed by women. Did I worry about being called a humourless harpy when I was canvassing opinions on how to implement changes ? Yes, but it was important so I just had to suck it up to achieve the end results.

FWR is full of discussions by women confirming just how difficult it can be to be constantly aware of sexism but equally there's a united front that not doing something about it results in the continuity of women being treated badly. Being scared of being labelled is one of the ways in which women are kept in their place. It's how men (and yes, only some men but men nonetheless) got away with their treatment of women in the past and present. Rolf Harris ? DLT ? Stuart Hall ? Ched Evans ? Because the sexual assault of these women was just something women had to put up with. These women were scared and intimidated by what had happened to them and by thinking they wouldn't be believed. The reality is that feminism isn't about women taking offence because a man holds a door open, it's about women refusing to allow themselves to be treated as lesser. It's about not allowing women to deny their responsibility to other women. It's not about never being critical of women and their own behaviours. Women don't get a free pass just because they are women.

FWR is always going to be a challenging place to post because it's never easy having to question things you've always believed and it's almost never pleasant to have a mirror held up to your own double standards. Posters on the FWR are more critical of themselves than other posters and it does those women a huge disservice to refer to them in the terms they have been referred to on here.

DoctorTwo · 31/10/2014 17:55

However I don't post because tbh, I find it a little intimidating

You could join us in the pub WD41, it's lovely and friendly in there. And we have goats.

LadyRabbit · 31/10/2014 17:58

Well maybe because like anything in life, there are people who talk about stuff and people who do stuff. I think, like a lot of other posters have mentioned upthread, that the relationships / AIBU / parenting etc threads are feminism in ACTION and far, far more useful and inclusive than extensive navel gazing about feminist theory. It's just a female version of big swinging dicks out pseuding each other a large part of the time.

I say this as someone who studied Feminist theory extensively at degree level, and who knows her bell hooks from her Butler.

Mumsnet - ie. the site itself in all its component parts - is remarkable and it is precisely when feminism is applied in a seemingly innocuous domestic setting that it is the most effective. And because it is quietly radicalising people who would otherwise be turned off by intellectual ping pong.

PumpkinGordino · 31/10/2014 18:04

i think that's a bit unfair ladyrabbit (i realise you aren't the only one who has said this of course) - plenty of people who regularly post in FWR also post elsewhere on the site including relationships and parenting, and are involved in RL activist stuff, and neither is that description representative of all threads in that section. i've said above that often you see threads running in parallel about e.g. an event in the news, one in FWR and another in a more general area of the site, and although there may be minor differences the general responses will often be similar

Boomtownsurprise · 31/10/2014 18:13

I go to the fwr board rarely now. Specifically because the ones I encountered over 3yrs were elitist in their knowledge considering any opinion but one couched in technical theory deeply offensive, they were condescending at every opportunity far more than frankly AIBU and look at the consternation that's been causing (and no one appears to give a fig over on fwr board), and because they talk about three topics only transgender, hairy legs and bloody titles.

I am very disappointed by the board. I was sincerely hoping for learning and enlightenment. I touch it occasionally but always find every other board more enlightening and friendly.

It's very sad.

msrisotto · 31/10/2014 18:14

"It's just a female version of big swinging dicks out pseuding each other a large part of the time."

That's a bit rude. It's ok to have academic/political/theoretical conversations if you want to. There are lots of different types of conversations on mumsnet regarding feminism, as someone else said, some are feminism in action, some are more theoretical/political etc, you aren't forced to talk about them though.

dreamingbohemian · 31/10/2014 18:15

Yes, I agree that's unfair. I post in FWR, sometimes in a intellectual masturbation theoretical kind of way, but why should that mean I don't do anything at the practical or real-life level? I actually think I've done quite a bit in my personal life to change attitudes and break some barriers.

I agree that sometimes theory is not useful, I do abandon threads sometimes that get too abstract, but sometimes it's useful for some people. It doesn't mean that's all they do.

Boomtownsurprise · 31/10/2014 18:15

Admittedly an over exagg a bit about threads but really it's bizarre

hackmum · 31/10/2014 18:22

Simple answer: I don't know where it is. The feminism forum isn't even listed under Shortcuts/Popular Talk Forums at the bottom of the site (or any of the other forums under Shortcuts, for that matter).