To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

Blistory

yep, Blistory - from a male experience, that is exactly why I value the FWR - you don't have to agree with all of the posters, and sometimes one sucks up a fair bit of poo in the process (and learn how to avoid the personal/aggressive posters) BUT it's educative, and will be into the future.

scanning v quickly, it's notesworthy, I think, that the male posters here are keen to 'defend' the FWR board...

mrsrisotto I didn't mean to be rude. What I do find hard to reconcile, however, is how canonical feminist theory has become over time. And one of the things I find very frustrating not just about Feminist theory, but a lot of other political theory (which one could argue is always gendered in some way) is how patriarchal it becomes. Which is doubly frustrating because a lot of radical ideas began as a way of disrupting the status quo of ideologies and then became just as rigid as the thing they sought to destroy.

The other problem with any -ism is that there will always be some people who want a pure, all encompassing form of ideology - a one size fits all, if you will - and that simply isn't workable. So we end up with threads where posters start accusing other posters of being less or more feminist than each other.

BUT I truly love that the the boards do exist, and that many people who might have stumbled on Mumsnet for tips on how to soothe a teething baby find themselves questioning performativity or wondering why for years they have felt their DH is doing them a favour 'babysitting' their own kid!

I'm still in work mode, so only bullet points from me, I'm afraid.

If you always post to disagree, you'll find any space disagreeable. Surely if you are a feminist, then there is a least one thing you can agree on? Why not post about those things too?

If there are no threads on things you want to talk about, the answer is in your hands. Post more and your experience will probably change. Or keep posting about feminist stuff outside FWR. I don't think any feminist would even think to be bothered about that, although you'll always get some MNers moaning that you aren't in the right section. But you'll soon learn the feminists can't win. Post about FGM and you'll get people saying that you aren't posting about things that affect them. Post about career issues and you'll get people saying that you're all white, western and middle class.

Feminists are not the Borg, not even on FWR. Dismissing a section in which you might have an interest as a feminist because of a handful of people, or even just Xenia, when there are probably likely to be posts with which you agree seems odd to me. I remember when this all kicked off in a big way and there were plenty of posters saying "engage with me! I post but I get ignored because you are too busy engaging with those that push your buttons! Respond to me and you'll get the discussion you are after!" But still, nothing.

There'll be a lot of hand-wringing when women's rights get rolled back because feminists don't talk about them much anymore anywhere, given that most feminist spaces have rolled over to transactivist demands about how the issues are discussed, if it all.

The academic threads are boring to me. As are the prostitution ones, the name ones and the porn ones. I've been on enough of them, they all end up the same. So I don't open them. I learned a hell of a lot from when I did engage, though.

This thread, and all of the others that have gone before, is far harsher than any thread I've seen in FWR in years. And there are plenty of AIBU threads or those with subjects about which posters are equally passionate where flames get thrown on pretty much a daily basis. Don't hold any Mumsnetters on FWR to a higher standard of posting than you are prepared to accept for yourself.

I don't know why I posted because nothing changed the last time this kind of thread was started (or multiples of them). After that, the FWR boards were dead for months, waiting for the vacuum to be filled by all of those feminists who didn't want to post when dittany was here to get stuck in. MN has got the boards it deserves, really. I can't be arsed with them much either. But for different reasons than most posting on this thread, I suppose.

This thread and resulting thread in FWR reminded me of this cartoon.

Hey, what do you think of this?

@Graendal In a nutshell - Touche!

how about women have opinions...and we deal with them..

Because the board coveniently ignores news where women are the purpertators or males are the subject of abuse.

It is 'whataboutry' if people highlight men, yet incidents where women, such as today's media of a woman condemned to 8 years for domestic abuse, or the peadratician who has focused on boys is whitewashed in walls of academic text and generally ignored, switch the genders and you could see the posts.

Don't quote 'what about the menz' tripe either, my name does represent my time on here

And I'm convinced when a feminist regular gets caught up on another board, a call goes out to rally support and all of a sudden the board is swamped and taken over. Posters are then driven off and when all that's left is the feminists - they then congratulate themselves for winning the debate

Yes Bamba me too, I dared to disagree with a poster of the NN Dittany once & they all came flocking in on that thread, aggressively nit- picking everything I said, plus because I put up a good argument & didn't cow down, I was then hounded through several other threads, for weeks - either she had several sock puppets to validate her points, or you are right, they do gang up

I see I have been deleted, I would love to know what part of my reiterating the thoughts of several other posters as regards "narcissistic navel gazing, & that some of us prefer to live it, rather than the pseudo intellectual chatter", was deemed to be a personal attack a generalisation in a similar vein to many other posters, yes, but I did not attack anyone personally - I'm also very curios as to where the post went, that was a few after mine, quoting & accusing me of being aggressive - the one I chose to ignore as it was rubbish,

Curious

I think some of the language has an alienating effect, men this men that, and if anyone so much as dares to raise the subject there's such cutting quips as "what about the menz" and the NAMALT memes.

That's all fine if the women posting there don't care about alienating men and women.

'Mumsnet - ie. the site itself in all its component parts - is remarkable and it is precisely when feminism is applied in a seemingly innocuous domestic setting that it is the most effective. And because it is quietly radicalising people who would otherwise be turned off by intellectual ping pong.'

This is what I was trying to say on one of the other threads that sprang up yesterday, in response to another poster's question, but LadyRabbit has put it so much more clearly than me.
I like intellectual pingpong too, but not squash. Which is how the debates sometimes end up.

I've been here under different names since 2003. I am most definitely a feminist. I have posted on the feminism board in the past, many times, but I think the focus of the thread topics shifted away from the things that bug/interest me (corporate gender discrimination, overly genderized toys, the pink princess thing etc) to things that I was interested to read about but not hugely motivated to post much about. I thing the whole trans thing was a bit unfortunate.

Same thing happened to me as,minty but on a chat thread about cross dressing had a different view and was shot down got called nasty names got told i was i with my dp because i was scared about being on my own and any man would do and that i must have lesbain tendentices made me feel like crap for ages so thats why i dont bother with your section i work in a all male team and see and hear stuff all the time but i wont never comment on threads apart from this one or start one in your section as i dont like the way you have judged and bullied me

I often read but can't contribute more than has been pointed out already.

I posted on there once or twice.

I had the cheek to disagree with on of the leading lights. She ordered other women to not reply to any of my posts and started a new topic about me accusing me of being man because I disagreed with her.

I have lurked and posted in Fwr in the past. I haven't been near it in ages though.

I didn't find it intimidating, more frustrating really. Every time someone dared to speak up in defense of men they were shot down in flames, and the same old line would be trotted out 'what about the menz?'
The last straw for me was when a poster who was a rape victim dared to say that in general, most of the men she came into contact with were decent people. She was ripped to shreds on that thread. It was horrible to read.

Do you have a clearer understanding of why people avoid Fwr now op?

And still no response from the OP.

I got into trouble on the boards because I learned my feminism back in the 70s, and although I've read and understood and adapted over the years, there are still a number of areas that I get stuck on.
And instead of others accepting that there are many different varieties and shades of being a feminist, they get very shouty about my attitude being wrong and simplistic, or victim-blaming or about da menz.
Which is fine, I can wait another 40 years and observe them having the same learning experience as I have had.
I don't think I'dkeep dipping in and out if there weren't a large number of interesting and different opinions that are put forward by posters capable of debate.

I suspect they just amazed that so many people can be so wrong all at the same time.

Maybe there should be another Feminism topic for regular people and save the current one for the current regulars?

I suspect the op had no intention of engaging out in the wilds of Mumsnet and has scampered off into hiding after her attempt at pointing and whispering on her regular board was thwarted.

Shame really, there have been some excellent points made here.

Minty, your experience sounds terrible.
I suspect that your opinion (whatever it may have been) did not not fit with 'the majority' but with a vociferous minority who shouted you down.
Really not nice, should not be accepted on any board and not constructive to any kind of interesting conversation on any subject.

I think many of the problems aired here are not exclusive to FWR (anybody read the Chanel handbag thread on S&B ), but are heightened there because it's such an emotive subject.
As stated on a Site Stuff thread recanted if we could all remember to be kind to each other and not post anything we can not afford to 'lose' (emotionally, psychologically or of course materially) then robust opinions could be aired without upsetting anybody.

TiddgyD

I think this thread has developed really well and has raised v valid and interesting points although I feel a bit used by the OP for her opinion poll