to think it's too bloody dark too early and Scotland should have its own timezone if they want lighter mornings?

[MardyBra]

Just that really.

The USA, Australia, Russia etc have different time zones inside their national borders because they are enormous countries. The UK is tiny in comparison.

Those of us who wake early like getting back to GMT. Much nicer to see the sun rise while having my early morning tea. Before very long it will be dark at both ends of the day regardless of whether we're on GMT or BST.

My favourite episode to The west wing

"We changed TIMEZoNES?"

Don't know how it's supposed to be mean to Scotland if England had it's own time zone, but in any case I'd vote for leaving the clocks alone.

And are people in Scotland really blaming us because they didn't vote for independence. Bit weird that since England didn't get to vote either way.

I just blame the folk that voted no [shrugs].

Yabu. It's awful getting up in the dark. Last week it wasn't light until almost 8am and I'm only in Edinburgh.

There's not much daylight to argue about from now on in anyway, where it falls in the day makes little difference. Really, what worthy things are you going to do between 4.30 and 5.30 if it wasn't getting dark?

Can we have a whole separate one in wales too? Not that there was any sunlight today to know the difference. I just like not to feel left out

Yeah me too Danny, they've got a lot to answer for

I totally agree. Rospa say that 90 lives would be saved a year if the clocks didn't change. Yanbu

So going to school in the pitch dark will save a child's life?

I love in Scotland and I wish the clocks didn't change here either. It's going to be dwrk when my DC finish school now, as they have started finishing later this year.

Yes 1000% yes OP!

Actually tho, I think we should be BST during winter and BST+1 during summer!

People are more alert when they are driving in the dark in the mornings so less people have accidents than at night.

Either way it's a dark miserable few months!

Didn't they do a trial of this in the late 60s and actually there was a reduction in road traffic accidents because evening rush hour was lighter?

Yes. Or no.

The trial of permanent BST showed an overall reduction in road traffic deaths (in an era when there were a lot more deaths on the roads).

However, the children who died in the darker mornings had names and faces, and each one was a potential "had it been lighter, would they have lived?" debating point.

While every child who didn't die in the lighter evenings was a statistical abstraction, without a name or a face.

Making these sort of risk tradeoffs is not easy.

Surely data from 40 years ago is inaccurate now anyway?

We have halogen, safer cars, reflective gear, traffic management etc.

I was at primary school in Scotland during that trial. We were all issued with reflective armbands to wear while walking to school. In that era almost all children walked to school (or cycled, I suppose) without their parents.

On a related note, I remember vividly the outrage I felt (a few weeks after my fifth birthday) when my mother explained to me that she would have to collect me from school when I started there. It was a school rule that 5-year-olds couldn't walk home on their own. I was disgusted. I knew I could manage the trip as I was often sent from home to the shop opposite the school to buy bread. I've been back as an adult and was amazed to see that this involved crossing at least two roads. Changed times!

If your knickers are really that fankled about it you could just ignore the change.

There was a programme on about a year or so about it where people just didn't change their clocks. Will try and find it for you.

In fairness, approximately 45% of Scotland would have been happy to decide stuff like this for ourselves, quite recently... Kind of in the hands of Messrs Cameron and Clegg now. (not another indyref thread, honest)

YANBU. Certainly most of Scotland needs to keep this. If England doesn't I've no problem with moving my watch about when I cross the border.

Just for comparison currently

Shortest Day - Thurso - Sunrise 09:03 Sunset 15:21
Shortest Day - Penzance - 08:18 Sunset 16:22

I read the thread title as meaning:

(clears throat)

"Power to set standard times in Scotland should be devolved on the Scottish Parliament in order that the rest of the UK may set their own time without restricting Scotland's Time Freeeedom" and avoid antagonizing Nats who are spoiling for a fight

In fairness, approximately 45% of Scotland would have been happy to decide stuff like this for ourselves

Oh for goodness sake will you Fanny and Rita stop dragging that sodding referendum into everything . You lost get- over it. You can't blame Cameron et all for the fact it's dark in winter in Scotland.

I have no strong feelings one way or another. I'm a night owl naturally. My working day starts at 10 a.m with a 5 minute walk to work and ends between 8 and 9 p.m. So either way I go to work in day light and come home in the dark and it's been like that since early September.

Oh piss off phaedra. Have you been waiting for me to mention the referendum in a post because that's the first time I have since.

Oh, and it was a tounge in cheek joke.

Calm yer pants.

'That sodding referendum'

Sounds a lit Luke 'That man off the telly'

Is that you patronisingBTlady?

No, seriously, I'm over it.