To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

She meant sometimes if the child looks naughty they are naughty.

As its so easy to tell apparently. Except it isn't. Hopefully people's experiences on here and on the ADHD thread might make people think before judging.

Except probably not as they all think they can rule out any issues easily.

That's great for your cousin.

However not all SN is the same. I assume for example she doesnt have ADHD?

Parenting my son was hard until he was about 14 and he seemed to grow into himself. He is heading for university and I suspect that he will meet lots of other people like him and he may finally feel as if he belongs. I can't wait for that day to come. It has been such a difficult journey for him and knowing that he is constantly judged by adults who should know better has only added to the difficult nature of that journey.

As people often say "not all badly behaved kids have SN".

True. But some do.

And it isn't always possible to tell by how someone is parenting or from the child's behaviour.

So some poor.sods already struggling get caught in the judgy crossfire or lose friends.

Makes me sad.

My son just looked naughty and rude. Sometimes he is naughty and rude.

Ok as a one off pumpkin when you were exhausted and there might times where you gave up ok. So have I. But on a regular basis you wouldn't let your DC do whatever you wanted. I ve known these people for a long time and this isn't a one off this is just a situation that is getting worse.

Ok I will broaden my mind and read up on autism and see if maybe some of his behaviour was linked and wait and see. But in any case I still hate the way he is being brought up, or not brought up in this case, and I don't feel Im being unreasonable anymore.

But seriously I will read up on Autism and learn a bit more about all these different conditions that can subtle affect children.

Whatever he wanted not what you wanted. Sorry Im tired !

That's why I asked about the school/nursery view- I know several DC who have had special needs recognised and diagnosed only once they had started nursery or school.

In the two cases I mention of wet parenting the DC were able to behave in school and did follow the school rules - thought they did get told off. It was listening to the parents blame other children leading their DC astray despite the staff insisting this wasn't the case or their DC were being picked on by staff - while next breath complaining they had little control over their DC.

So I don't think SEN is a red herring - it might apply here and the parents are desensitizes to their DC - but climbing on tables and running round that would be the point that the parents even with DC with diagnosed SEN I know step in - and either remove the DC from the situation for a short time at least in effort to calm then or find out what the problem is or make some firm attempt to redirect/control the DC. That doesn't sound like it happened in that case.

Alice and Phil Fine that you think this is tosh but generally yes I can tell the difference. Really the post seems to be more about OP's friends not carrying through and letting their child run riot.

It wasnt me who said that little

LFM - to be fair, I'm not sure what validation you are seeking here. Most have agreed that it's not appropriate for children to be standing on the tables in restaurants. That's kind of a no-brainer. I think you'll find most parents will not allow their children to do this (SNs or not) as 1-it's inappropriate and 2-it's dangerous and 3-it'd be pretty damn embarrassing!

Every parent on here, including those with children with SNs, have basically said that no, they wouldn't just let their children run riot, but have also stated that sometimes (or often) they struggle with their behaviour.

Since in that respect, we're all on the same page, I'm struggling with what exactly the problem here is. Aside, of course, from the people on the thread that are woefully misinformed about SNs and invisible disabilities. In that case... here... educate yourselves.

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child

round if you say so.

"She meant sometimes if the child looks naughty they are naughty."

Well no, I didn't mean exactly that. I meant that sometimes a child's behaviour is bad because they are unchecked by their parent(s), not because they have SN or because the parents have special ways of dealing with behaviour that is not seen by anyone else.

Sometimes of course that is true.

But I would contend it is not always that easy to tell which is which.

Im not seeking any validation, Im just explaining my point of view. Also the debate is going in lots of different directions and its interesting to discuss everything. Im learning a lot about special needs children for example.

I really hate this liberal style of parenting. It's very common in Sweden where I come from. The parents think they are doing their children a favour by never giving them any opposition and never saying no to them, but in reality they turn their poor kids into brats who have no idea what is acceptable behaviour.

In my opinion, this lax style of parenting betrays a very low opinion of children, as if they cannot be expected to behave like human beings. The fact is, they can behave if they are taught how, and it is up to the parents to teach them. Just imagine when they start school, college, university and work. A person who has never had to take anyone else's needs or feelings into account, and never had to work hard for anything will not do well in life.

No, I agree with you, it isn't always easy. We can only go on what we see in an ongoing basis; and 2h once a week over 2 years is probably not going to give a clear enough picture. But it's still a consistent picture of non-intervention in the example I gave, and in the OP's example too - not a one-off snapshot event.

I still appreciate your point, and philoslothy's, though.

That's ok, LFM. I was just curious, as you restated a couple time "okay but what about this specific behaviour", that's all. Thought maybe we were missing something specific. Carry on.

Annaholly that is a real issue alright and one that parents just dont seem to want to understand.

Upthread a poster 'LaQueen' got flamed for talking about her children understanding that a certain look said 'dont go there'

Surely they should have been wondering how to perfect the look!!!

roundandround51 "I can nearly always tell the difference between SN and just a badly behaved child"

How?

I know this situation well! My mums next door neighbours little boy is the same. He screams like a little girl everytime something doesn't go his way, he bites, kicks, nips, pulls hair and spits on people! His mum doesn't do anything she just quietly tells him to stop. He doesn't have any disabling and when he plays with my daughter she comes back with bruises and missing clumps of hair. I hate him so much, he is cheeky an arrogant towards adults. I shouted at him to let go of my daughters hair one day and he kicked my baby bump and told me to die. Iv never been so angry at a child I told him to go home and not bother coming back to play with my DD he is 5 years old and should know better, I'm not an angry or violent person but that is one kid who needs a smacked arse!

He sounds like he could well have some issues tbh. That is fairly extreme aggression.

I really don't think every misbehaving child in the country has special needs. If it were that common there would be nothing special about it.

Did i say they did?

No i didn't. Dont be ridiculous.

However if a child demonstrates extrene aggression like you are describing it is at least a possibility.

I really don't think every misbehaving child in the country has special needs. If it were that common there would be nothing special about it.

Absolutely we cannot all be afraid to impose boundaries just in case our dc have something un diagnosed.