To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Thumbscrewswitch

It would be a good and sensible idea if restaurants were to eject families with unruly children who spoil everything for other diners. If the families were got rid of a few times, they might realise that there's something that they have to do about it. It's not just for the enjoyment of other diners,is it? It's for the safety of others, too. What about staff walking about with hot drinks or plates of hot meals? I wouldn't want to sit in a restaurant with soup or tea being poured across my shoulders by a waiter or waitress who's been jogged off course.

Pumpkin - it appears that you tried to do something about it. This mother did not. There is the difference.

I probably didnt look like I was doing anything standard. And some people did moan at me.

Hence I don't judge people as you don't know what's happening with them.

I am so pleased that my first child was the one that was difficult - a factor in this being his special needs. The other four have all been relatively easy - although dd2 is quite a handful in a different way.

It has prevented me from ever being smug about my parenting.

I think there is a very distinct difference between a difficult child who doesn't obey their mother and a child whose mother permits totally unacceptable behaviour.

One smug twat in particular used to discipline DD "for me" as I stood there.

If only he knew the full story eh.

Did you ever tell him?

No because I didnt see him again after DD was diagnosed. She had no diagnosis then to tell.

So he could well come on here writing about the useless mum he knew at playgroup I suppose.

Thats awful pumpkin, whatever the circumstance I would never discipline someone else's child.

I understand a few people have children who have real difficulties with social environments linked to autism or other reasons and to me that is a complete other conversation. And of course I appreciate that before the condition was diagnosed people were quick to judge the child's behaviour blaming the parent when it was far more complicated. BUT wether your child has a condition or not would you let your child stand on a table in a restaurant? Would you let them kick a pram with a sleeping baby in it? Would you let them climb on a fire place/ random people who were having lunch there?Would you let them behave like you had absolutely no control over them on a regular basis and think it was fine, and that the situation was linked to him being 'difficult' and not at all linked to the fact that when he did something naughty you never challenged it?

Having trouble controlling a child is one thing and all parents come across it but letting them do WHATEVER THEY WANT and letting act like complete spoilt brats is another thing.

My son was well into his schooling before he had a special needs diagnosis so it probably looked like he had no boundaries.

Isn't special needs a bit of a red herring here. I can nearly always tell the difference between SN and just a badly behaved child.

But its a chicken and egg situation.

Standard discipline doesnt work on DD. I do practice the chase after and physicaly hold method now though.

I still would be wary of assuming its lack of discipline causing issues ALWAYS now that I.know some issues can mean standard discipline doesnt work so can see why some people might give up on them.

I am not saying this for my own sake.

Now DD has clear obvious SN.

But if I could help to make people think more broadly before judging that would be amazing for other people who are struggling.

My son has sensory issues so he often kicked off In restaurants. We would swiftly remove him for his own sake snd we quickly worked out that he could go to certain places. However there will have been a time when we were trying to make it work and I definitely faced a few MNesque catsbum faces.

Roundandround..no..you think you can. In reality you cannot.

If I had time I'd link to the This is My child campaign page on invisible disabilities but I don't.

Today 16:13 roundandround51

Isn't special needs a bit of a red herring here. I can nearly always tell the difference between SN and just a badly behaved child.

You must be incredibly perceptive or perhaps I am just incredibly stupid because I thought that I just had an incredibly naughty child and I know others did.

Isn't special needs a bit of a red herring here. I can nearly always tell the difference between SN and just a badly behaved child.

Of course you can. You just look for what.. their sign?

Complete and utter tosh.

But again, Philoslothy - did you just sit/stand doing nothing, or did you try to stop your DS?

This isn't about the children, it's about the parents response to the children's behaviour.

And to say that the non-responsive mum was "driven out" of our playgroup because her older DS was prevented from doing something dangerous by one of the helpers, is over-emotive language IMO. I understand that you had bad experiences yourself, Pumpkin but sometimes the duck really is a duck.

Oops, xpost, sorry.

I suspect there were times when I just stared at my son in utter embarrassment, exhaustion and desperation. So yes there will have been times when I did nothing.

Or it looks like a duck and isn't really but you think its one.

I am a bolshy, well educated and usually confident woman. I was certainly driven out of playgroups and activities by other parents.

*sometimes the duck is a duck"

What do you mean by this?

We are drifting into a very sensitive subject talking about special needs. I can't imagine what its like to have a child who has special and how amongst other things, ignorant people who judge make it so much harder on the parents. I can't begin to imagine the struggles the families go through and I won't pretend to and I respect why my post make you react but for one second can you think that maybe he doesn't have a condition.

I think linking this little boy to special needs is wrong. A lot of parents who have children with some kind of condition here have said that they didn't let their child do everything they wanted. This is what upset me during the lunch is that this little boy did whatever he wanted.

My little cousin is severely handicapped, she has the mental age of a 3/4 year old amongst other thing ( she is 13) and it has been so challenging for her family. STILL, she is so well behaved. Sure she has tantrums and stuff but she would never have behaved like the things I have described and its a pleasure being around her.

Well I can empathise with that Philoslothy because that's how I feel at home with Ds2 a lot of the time at the moment (he's just 2) - and I may get to that point out and about with him too, so I'll be one of those retracting all my statements later.