To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

My "look" works on DH, the cats and I often use it on OPC with good effect!

Hannibal

It's always the same people who have a running commentary on how well-behaved (and smart) their children are. I guess we're never going to meet the parents of the badly behaved/thick ones.

And on it goes..

I'm boring myself now. You can all congratulate yourselves to your hearts content.

Well, it's a good job I don't really give a toot what you make of me having the upper hand over my kids. You say smug and competitive...I say I'm implementing the basics. So there we go.

I think many parents are afraid of their children.
This. 100% this.

This is the reason I NEVER want another nannying job, I cannot deal with the level of arse lickery that has to go on every single day just to have a child not cry or quickly stop whinging/ shouting/ embarrassing their parents.

The overlooking of bad behaviour and making excuses for it, indulgence of tantrums.
Parents slagging off any other parent who isn't auditioning to be their child's best friend, like anyone who sets boundaries is a weird control freak.
If I was to do what I see as a good job the parents would think me horrible, if I did their idea of a great job I would know I was doing the child no favours at all.

wooooo
You want to put down those of us who have worked damn hard to ensure our DC behave but I cant work out for the life of me what your point is or what your alternative is?
If your DC sometimes behaved and sometimes didn't then we have had the exact same experience.
Except I thought it was my responsibility to ensure that they learnt to behave appropriately as the end result.
I didn't leave it to chance - I cant see what is so wrong in that.

OP, I am friends with some people like the friends you mention. The sad part is that they are interesting and fun etc, but they instill no boundaries/manners in their own kids. I simply can't cope with their children, you don't just sit and look at your kid throwing a stool across the room! Nor do you ignore a kid throwing food on the floor, interrupting conversations etc. we're not talking toddlers either.
We all have bad days, kids included, but there are limits.
So no, it's not normal. And yes, I avoid socialising with them.
I'm not judging, each to their own, but I can't be doing with this.

Ilovenicesoap sometimes people work as hard or harder than you and the others who keep saying "they work damn hard to ensure their DC behave" and it doesn't work. It isn't any reflection on them, it is because their children are different to yours and they aren't as lucky.

Yes, some people are lazy, some can't be bothered and let their kids get away with things, but in reality these parents are in the very small minority.

You want to put down those of us who have worked damn hard to ensure our DC behave

I have to say a friend whose dc was v v naughty and actually quite violent to other dc when out and about told me I was lucky once.

I had to swallow hard and control myself. I never saw her once put her foot firmly down with her DS and it was maddening she tolerated horrific behaviour that I would never in a million years tolerated and I was lucky?

I used to watch my DC like a hawk as a toddler I wouldn't want her to harm another child ( she never did) or another child to harm her.

I think we are up tight around dc in the UK, not child friendly at all, and quite a miserable stressed place to raise dc actually.

However there are limits on how far you let your dc impact on other peoples lives.

Fairy
I should perhaps make it quite clear that I am not referring to DC with SN.

Not sure how luck comes into it- if basic methods don't work then parents need assistance- I get that.
The OP describes parents who don't even try to control their DC and who have a child that rides a scooter around a restaurant.
The DC are not getting the parenting they need. That is my point.

I have to say though I have never seen loads of badly behaved dc when out and about at all.

At toddler groups - yes, but never in restaurants etc, if a child has ever kicked off, the parents are trying their best to cope and deal with it. I have had odd experience as above with friend who I liked very much but who never disciplined and friend who barely spoke to me, as child 99% focus of attention, so pointless meeting.

Same here Knitted. We spend plenty of time in "family" type restaurants and I've never witnessed these feral children who wander around unattended. Maybe I'm too busy trying to get my own to sit still and stop bellowing...

Seriously, there seem to be loads of these threads at the moment. Has everyone in the UK started parenting like arseholes all of a sudden? I only spend about 4 weeks of the year there but last time we were back in the summer it didn't seem to be the case. Where are all these "ineffectual" parents?

Personally I've only met four - or at least that is how many I have spent any real time with to know that they are habitually ineffectual. But that was enough. Too much like hard work for me!

Actually I have met one woman who just couldn't control her small son. He was very hyper and determined, she was a quiet, meek sort of person who was just totally overwhelmed. I felt really sorry for her. She was obviously mortified and desperate but not a strong-enough character to deal with him and didn't seem to have any support. I certainly wouldn't have bothered starting a cat's-bum-faced style thread about her referring to her son as "dickhead".

Mrsfrumble - the OP is French, and it has been explained that dickhead is a word that has crossed the channel but has much less a pejorative sense in France.

Yeah okay, probably wasn't necessary to bring that up again. Sorry.

I'm just a bit pissed off with these "OMG ineffectual parents!" threads at the moment.

This is the first one I've seen in a long time.

It's a difficult one. My kids were always talked to before we ventured to social situations about behaviour and expectations which we usually said would be rewarded with a nice film, altogether and cuddle once home, imo it worked a treat. We, parents could pick,up nice bottle of wine on way home, get all Pjd up and relax knowing everyone had done the right thing. Bribery included. My SIL used to bring her kids to every event and NEVER PARENT. So annoying as she looked "cool" and her kids ran riot and I'm expecting mine to behave. even as recent as few years ago her 20 year old sat at a meal for my fathers 70th on her phone all night. My father was intended but Too polite to say anything. Karma is what I live by. In the real world they'll be expected to behave.....sooner thantheynthink.

There have been a few in the last couple of weeks (I've been ill and have spent waaaay too much time on here) and they always go the same way.

I'm sure there are parents out there who genuinely don't give a toss and think that their little darlings are just expressing themselves, but I'd bet the majority who are judged to be "ineffectual" are actually struggling and really embarrassed, and could maybe do with some support and compassion.

Most people are just muddling along

I agree and there are such a variety of parenting styles that all turn out lovely young adults.

However, some people do really blow it, don't they?

I'm still aghast that OP refers to a child behaving like a "dickhead"...

:(

Me too, and having read the thread there was no explanation that 'dickhead' actually means something quite different in France, that was for the equally unpleasant sounding 'terrible character' which the OP was very apologetic about.

Having one angelic child and one rather more devilish I didn't claim either as a result of my parenting. dd wasn't good because we managed her in any particular way, she just was very extrovert and very aware of other people from a very young age. She enjoys spending time with people and has a strong desire to please (which has been great for her relationships with teachers/school work but bad for managing friendships).

ds also wasn't bad because we were ineffective parents, he is just a very internally orientated introvert who took a long time to really process consequences enough to stop his impulsive instincts. You could threaten him with all sorts, stare at him until the cows came home but when he was small if he was set on doing something that's what he was going to do, and if you intervened then an almighty tantrum was the result. ds is NT, but has some AS traits, enough to get lots of referrals at primary, but at 4 most children who do turn out to have SNs are undiagnosed. They are just difficult children for whom the normal parenting tricks don't work.

So, what you're saying nooka is that the child in the OP could be undiagnosed SN, and the fact that the parents made no clear attempt to even use any normal parenting tricks is because they knew they wouldn't work?

Well..it happens. .probably not the case here..but probably almost every parent of a child with ASD here and almost definitely every one of a child with ADHD will have been in the position of being judged for parenting when child was 4 even though standard discipline doesn't work.