To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Where did I say I thought it was about me?

Hiya !

Hows it going on my horribly judgemental disciplinary French mother thread?

I really share a lot of people's opinions.
Of course everyone has had episodes where their children have had a complete melt down and it was very hard to control / sort out/ soothe the child. Nobody states that the people who are pro manners are perfect?

A lot of the people who disagree dont really say why? They just disagree?
I haven't seen yet someone that explained why no manners is good and how?
A lot have explained why manners and educating are important which now makes me feel I was not being unreasonable.
But for the people who just say their children turned out fine. How did they turn out fine by never listening to anything you said? Surely they got run over by a car? Created damages in restaurants by scooting around and eventually breaking something? Got thrown out of school for constantly biting?
You are saying you never imposed some limits? That cant be true.

And as for some children being harder than other yes I agree. My little one is sooo challenging! Still. He wont act like that little boy.

I'm loving the death stare chats. Looking at your child in a way that lets them know they are being naughty is bad? I disagree.

Basic manners are essential. No one has explained how no manners could be beneficial.

I wish you all a lovely sunday night with your families X

Then judge the parents if you must judge anyone SDTG. There is no need whatsoever sit constantly giving negative looks to a small child.

Nicki hasn't made this thread about her. It the smug Mcsmuggers who have made the thread about them!

OP agree x 1000
None ever explains why having out of control DC is marvellous because it isn't.
God forbid you try to stop them running around and scootering in restaurants because chokes on laughter you will be smug

Well whatever Ill take smug over crap parent with out of control, miserable DC any day .

Erm - where have I said that I either sit constantly giving negative stares to a small child, or that I advocate doing that, TheFairyCaravan?

my Sindy got sexually assaulted by the boys in my streets action men! And she was only trying to help them by being a field nurse.

Talking about going out with people with dc though I find it equally annoying when the parent is lavishing too much attention on them, and you can't hold a convo to the point where you think, why did you meet up with me today?

My children were the exact opposite of miserable.Sometimes they behaved, sometimes they didn't. They weren't always beautifully polite,but then I never pretended they were.

You know, like children in the real world.

"and you can't hold a convo to the point where you think, why did you meet up with me today?"

Yep. Why am I even here? Stay at home and listen to your dc, instead of bringing me along to watch you.

YANBU - I cannot understand why parents allow their children to behave badly and display bad manners in company/public. I would also keep play dates to an absolute minimum with these friends.

I get that sometimes it can be embarrassing when your DC is acting up again, but really, it's not wise to leave it. Imagine what they would be like as teens!

Wooo:
We have established are children tantrum, are difficult, give us a hard time. They sometimes behave they some time dont. We all have established that.

Can you please use proper arguments, " the children in the real world" isn't one. Its cute, but it leads to nothing. I assure you I live on earth and deal with real issues every day. Nonetheless I have taught my 4 year old not to poo on the middle of a high street. BASIC MANNERS.

Come on try harder.

I'm fascinated by the amount of discussion about the 'stare'
For those who don't have a 'look' that they wheel put as their first response to poor behaviour, what do you do instead?

• ignore it, tell them to stop, shout, smack?

I have seen all of these as the first response to bad behaviour. Tbh the 'look' seems by far the best one. It is low key, but shows the child their behaviour has been noted and found lacking. Often no more is necessary as they modify their behaviour....not through terror, but because they just needed a reminder. No words have been said, so child isn't embarrassed and parent isn't jumping in with an overly extreme reaction. All other possible responses remain open, if poor behaviour continues.

On the other hand, doing nothing, is either because parent cannot be bothered, or wishful thinking thAt child will just stop. What if they don't? Do you then do a 'look' or resort to words or actions?
I have also seen parents' first response be to wallop the child across the head. Extreme! No chance for child to correct their behaviour.

If we view discipline as an escalating thing, then we start low level (the look) move onto words, words with a threat and then action (and I don't mean violence here)

The problem comes when there is nothing at all, or words and more words with no consequences mentioned, or consequences mentioned which never materialise.

I am sure I have been guilty of doing nothi and not following through....but I try really hard, because I can see how damaging it is for children.

And I do think it is damaging, rather than just annoying for other diners. Children who don't expect to be picked up on poor behaviour, find adjusting to school difficult. They find consequences of poor behaviour at school difficult to understand and respond to. They need to be told more frequently about how to behave or not behave before they get the message and respond. So teaching children early on, that when we say something, we mean it, isn't bullying, but preparing them for later life.

wooo I was talking about the pretty miserable sounding child in the OP- crying, tantrumming and screaming.
Ive never met your DC .

It's not even about how people parent that grates on me with threads like this. it's the bosom hoiking 'well my kids would never do that' stuff.

Like yer mum gossiping with her neighbour about the awful kids at no 37.

You didn't SDTG, LaQueen did, which was what my post that you commented on refferred to.

ChocolateWombat I too cannot believe some people do not have 'the look' as a first response. I have mine perfected, I think it even works on DH.

My older DC have now however worked out that it was just in fact all an act to get them to behave immediately.

I agree that people are not being smug.
They are not saying their children are perfect or that they are.

They are simply saying that if their children misbehave, they intervene to stop it.

The consequence of that intervention, over time is in most cases, children who actually don't need lots of intervention!

The consequence of no intervention is continued poor behaviour, likely worsening behaviour and something harder to sort out.

Who here has said that their kids would never do that?
Mine have all behaved like horrors at times.
Ds1 - LOUD
Ds2 - tantrums (and omg how)
dd - rude and cheeky

I have the authority to stop them though - or the option of removal, which I have and will utilise.

What with the chip on your shoulder about those of us who can control our kids?

My ds saves his truly awful behaviour for certain members of my family, oh and my work collegues. He can totally sense my need for him to "be on his best behavior" and then pulls out all the stops to be really annoying,! He is very contrite afterwards. I don't have a death stare, cos if I try that it just spurs him on. I do the taking him aside and hissing warnings thing. He does know I will carry them out, so that usually sobers him. Does anyone else have a child who sometimes just gets high with naughtiness and has trouble coming down from that? I do my best though, and as he gets older it gets easier. Not an easy kid really, so it can be flipping hard work. It does matter, that we socialise our children, because we do want other people to want to be around them.

Because it comes across as 'I'm a better parent than anyone else'

Just not my style ,is all. I never really did the competitive parenting stuff though.

I've never said this out loud to anyone in real life.

My dd is well behaved, I don't talk about her in the playground which makes no doubt makes me look smug, If I join in conversations about behaviour I get looks because they are thinking I'm smug. I can't win. It started in reception when dd got star of the week two weeks in a row, she came out of school gushing with pride, i smiled and said well done, then I heard someone mutter "smug cow" dd also heard it and ever since (she's now y5) she doesn't come rushing out if she's got a certificate or pupil of the week or whatever, she keeps it quiet until we are away from the others, I don't talk about reading levels or things she's praised for in school because I know they'll think I'm being smug. I shouldn't care but I do, dd shouldn't care but she does.

Most of the judging on this thread seems to be aimed towards people who have said their children have manners and with some techniques on how they achieved that. How that equates to be being smug I don't know.

My mum had a death stare, she did a lip shakey thing like Hannibal and we knew to behave, I never once felt frightened of her or that she didn't love us.

Yes, it comes down again, to who is in charge.

We are the adults and we don't have to be afraid of our children. We can stop the unacceptable behaviour.....if it involves removing them from the situation, we should do it!